Truth or Fiction?

[Bob Spiers]

I came across this from an Ancestry Tree (and indeed other Trees) when researching the gentleman depicted - George Mackie 1834 - 1894.



I knew of the Bank Manager (and or Bank Clerk) occupation but you will need no guesses as what caught my attention... Murdered on the steps of his bank?

George Mackie relates to my grandson and his father my ex son in law (since divorced from my daughter). George Mackie 1834 born Aberdeen was the brother of my Grandson's 3rd Great Grandfather.

Such an event would have made newspaper headlines which even with a trial subscription taken out to Newspapers Com (since lapsed) I have been unable to uncover. I messaged the Tree owner responsible for the insert shown, and she admits it was something gleaned from other Trees, and she has been unable to confirm the deed herself, adding "no smoke without fire.

It would be unfair to seek the help of others without a brief note of George Mackie, who was I am afraid was something of a Roué and I even wonder if he made Manager or remained a Bank Clerk. His death year may also be 1891 rather than 1894. Here are the salient facts without which you will struggle

#1:Born 1834 in Aberdeen Scotland and we find him as a Bank Manager in 1871 In St Pancras, London. (Warning he may only have resided in London, the Bank may have been in Kent). He is married to an Ann(Ann E Billings) (one year difference in age ) and they have 3 children and a General Servant Henrietta B Cochrane who will come into the story later.
#2:Interestingly in 1881 he is shown as a Bank Clerk (?) still married but Ann is not present and I believe she died in 1882 and was perhaps in a hospital or home. With George is one daughter Ann Elizabeth who was present in 1871. They now reside in Hackney, London.
#3:I now record an Interlude because George has a dalliance with his Servant Henrietta Cochrane (13 years his junior) with whom he sires two Cochrane children in 1881 & 1883 No sign of a marriage and indeed believe there wasn't one.
#4:In the 1891 Census he is again a Bank Clerk (?) BUT THIS TIME married to an Annie 17 years his junior. I believe she is Annie Jamieson who he married in 1886 in Islington, London. Two more Mackie children. They reside again in Hackney. The only death I can corroborate is the same year as the Census -1891 in Thanet, Kent (likely Ramsgate).

The only question being asked is can anyone discover anything about him being murdered on the steps of his bank for the period 1891-1894 given his residence and Bank location could be Kent or London?

A conclusion to the question will come as a relief not only to me but my Grandson, who incidentally lives in Bermuda and is relying on his Granddad to uncover the facts. I hate to let him down but my research has failed to uncover how, why or when George Mackie he died.

 

[peter]

can anyone discover anything about him being murdered on the steps of his bank

You've presumably already checked the British Newspaper Archive - if you found nothing there then I suggest you get a PDF of his death register entry. (Even though he was born in Scotland his will would surely have been proved in England - so that may help you find the death entry. In any case, there are only two deaths that fit.)

 

[Bob Spiers]

Errata: I made a mistake in my own reference to his death year as being 1891, it was indeed 1894 -as since discovered on GRO and sending for a PDF copy as Peter suggests. So it seems wise to latch onto circa 1894 for any report of a murder either in Thanet or London.

 

[peter]

sending for a PDF copy

Perhaps best to wait for that to arrive before searching for newspaper reports? It may be that there's no truth in the story.

 

[Tim]

I can't find any mention of George, or a murder involving a bank in the timeframe.

 

[peter]

Against my better judgement I did look up George Mackie in the British Newspaper Archive: on 6th December 1894 the East Kent Times reported the death on 3rd December, at St Albans Villas (presumably the ones in Ramsgate) of George Mackie of London, aged 59.

He certainly didn't die on the steps of a bank, he didn't even die in hospital. If he was indeed murdered it also seems remarkable that the incident wasn't reported in the press, so whilst we'll have to wait for the PDF to arrive in Bob's inbox, it seems exceedingly unlikely that there's any truth in the story.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Against my better judgement I did look up George Mackie in the British Newspaper Archive: on 6th December 1894 the East Kent Times reported the death on 3rd December, at St Albans Villas (presumably the ones in Ramsgate) of George Mackie of London, aged 59.

He certainly didn't die on the steps of a bank, he didn't even die in hospital. If he was indeed murdered it also seems remarkable that the incident wasn't reported in the press, so whilst we'll have to wait for the PDF to arrive in Bob's inbox, it seems exceedingly unlikely that there's any truth in the story.

Not sure about the 'better judgement' bit, but although I knew of his death in Ramsgate (and the year confirmed eventually) you succeeded with your Newspaper search where my best part of a week of a 'free trial' to Newspapers.com failed (although I was concentrating on a 'murder' news story). Likewise conventional searching via Newspaper sources available through Ancestry or FMP.

I now think the 'murder' element is a red herring, but will await the PDF. Meanwhile out of interest (well to me at least) I will post next some information just received about George and family via an Ancestry message, which even if it has no bearing on the 'murder' element, explains some family friction that might have raised a few hackles!

 

[peter]

At Findmypast there are only 74 results for 'George Mackie' in 1894, mostly in Scotland, and just one of the English results is from Ramsgate. No need to enter additional terms such as 'murder' or bank' when there are so few results for the name.

In general you get the best results at Findmypast when you search individual record sets and enter as little information as possible on the search form.

 

[Bob Spiers]

I have received a further message from the Ancestry researcher above mentioned, and she has copied me a message received from yet another Mackie researcher who herself (yes another lady) learned the details from a family relative some 17 years ago.

It relates to both a son and daughter of George's Mackie. The son (William George-1858 )born to his first wife Ann and the daughter (Ann Cochrane 1881) born to his 'lover' Henrietta Cochrane 1847.

Here is a condensed version. The son ended up marrying Louisa Cochrane (Henrietta's sister) considerably younger than Henrietta and this came as a surprise to his father and caused a deal of friction and 'bad-blood' between them (not to mention a mish mash of double relationships). The daughter Ann Cochrane is involved only because the information came via an elderly relative (likely a grand niece) of hers in 2005.

It seems the murder' element has intrigued the family (and their researchers) ever since. No one seems to know its origins but of course it came from someone somewhere that is for sure. I love the term 'bad-blood' element because it implies motive so all we need now is Hercules Poirot to sort it all out...or of course a PDF death certificate.

 

[Margery]

Bob, your story is one that makes family history research addictive. There is no intrigue in my family but when I delved into my husband's family I found a network of relationships and subterfuge that one couldn't make up. During my research I have made contact with other people who are similarly amazed at the lives others have led.

 

[Bob Spiers]

No need to enter additional terms such as 'murder' or bank' when there are so few results for the name.

It was only necessary to use 'murder' and/or 'bank' keywords in my Newspapers.com searches as both were critical in my searching for an event which I thought would materialise, both on a local (Kent) level and certainly London or even National. In a way the fact nothing was found - despite many variations in routine - only boosts the fact no such murder took place.

In FMP I did resort to minimal searching and exploring Record Sets. In Ancestry I always search from the Ancestor's page, making sure it does not revert to an 'All collections' search which it all to often does.

 

[peter]

In FMP I did resort to minimal searching and exploring Record Sets.

So how come you missed it? I'm assuming you have a Pro subscription (newspapers are not included in lower subscriptions)?

 

[Bob Spiers]

So how come you missed it? I'm assuming you have a Pro subscription (newspapers are not included in lower subscriptions)?

Missed what? Yes I do have a Pro subscription and as I already had knowledge of his death venue perhaps my 'minimal' was too minimal for its own good.

 

[peter]

Missed what? Yes I do have a Pro subscription and as I already had knowledge of his death venue perhaps my 'minimal' was too minimal for its own good.

I only typed in the name George Mackie - surely you weren't more minimal than that?

As far as his place of death is concerned, all you told us was Thanet registrati0n district, probably Ramsgate - which was equally compatible with him dying on the steps of the bank, in a hospital bed, in a convalescent home, a boarding house, or indeed a bawdy house (no insult to residents of Ramsgate intended, but he does seem to have been a bit of a lad).

Searching newspapers is a key part of our research, so I think it's important to understand where you might have gone wrong so that others don't make the same mistake. As I mentioned recently in another discussion, my most important role is to teach people how to research more effectively - whether through this forum, through the newsletter, or through the Zoom presentations that I give around the world. I do sometimes help individuals with their research problems, but if I can help hundreds or thousands of people at the same time it has a greater impact.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Searching newspapers is a key part of our research, so I think it's important to understand where you might have gone wrong so that others don't make the same mistake

If I did not find something you did, then clearly our search parameters were different or we were not using the same search media. Or why else would it elude me? (that is a rhetorical question by the way). Searching Newspapers via Ancestry or FMP is NOT a key part of my normal research unlike BMD, Census and the 1939 Register with occasional diversions into Military and Electoral Rolls. If I can use a Record Set I do so but all to often am limited likely because the search record does not exist so I switch to other search methods. So having found the death registration I now needed to see if I could locate a Newspaper 'murder' report.

So I turned to 'Newspapers.Com' and saw they were offering an 8-day trial so took advantage of this and after intensive searching over 5 days using varying filters -including Bank-Manager-Murder-I discovered nothing and cancelled the subscription. I assumed your reference to a British Newspaper Archives was a dedicated website and that you had discovered the East Kent Times death reference but no report of a murder. Although not what I was seeking I was grateful for the information.

I must leave things there for now and await the PDF Death Certificate and report its finding in due course.

 

[peter]

A reminder for Bob and anyone else who has forgotten that ALL of the newspapers in the British Newspaper Archive can be accessed via Findmypast, provided you have a Pro or Ultimate subscription.

The search at the BNA website is more flexible, and is particularly good if you carry out the same searches repeatedly - but there's nothing that you can find at one site that cannot be found at the other.

If you are searching newspapers for a person this is a good way to start your search at Findmypast - just enter the person's name:



You can filter the search results by date or by location. In this case I restricted my search to 1894 because that was when the death was registered, but I didn't initially limit the location as articles often appear in the most unlikely places. Since there were only 7 results from England I looked at all of them, but this one stood out because it included the age shown in the death indexes:



Note that I didn't include keywords such as 'bank' or 'murder' since that would only work if the story was true, and the objective was to find out whether it was true OR false.

 

[Katie Bee]

So I turned to 'Newspapers.Com'

East Kent Times does not appear in the list of papers on Newspapers.com so no wonder you didn't find anything Bob.
East Kent Times was available on British Newspaper Archive and Findmypast from December 2020.

 

[peter]

the list of papers on Newspapers.com

Newspapers.com is a long, long way behind the BNA in terms of the number of pages in the archive, and when I looked at their list of English newspapers, around half of the pages in their collection are from national newspapers.

 

[Bob Spiers]

East Kent Times does not appear in the list of papers on Newspapers.com so no wonder you didn't find anything Bob.
East Kent Times was available on British Newspaper Archive and Findmypast from December 2020.

Newspapers.com is a long, long way behind the BNA in terms of the number of pages in the archive, and when I looked at their list of English newspapers, around half of the pages in their collection are from national newspapers.

Yes I agree with you both, and after 5 days of intense searching using Newspapers.com I won't in future give it house room. Mind you I have to own to not being familiar with using BNA either and had forgotten that it could be accessed from FMP. If in future I want to delve into a newspaper item, it will be via FMP.

Taking a trip down memory lane some half a dozen years ago, perhaps more, I had cause to explore the Australian Trove site (and one other as I recall recommended to me on the Forum). I wanted to locate the antics of a convict ancestor after his release from his transportation sentence. The Trove site certainly lived up to its name (Treasure Trove) and I suppose at the back of my mind I thought Newspapers.Com would be the same for the UK but it certainly wasn't.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Well almost all over bar the shouting as they say because the PDF copy of the death certificate (see below) reveals that he died of Hemiplegia (49) days) and Hemiplegia I discover is a condition caused by a brain injury. But of course it can also be caused by a Stroke, a Brain infection, *Brain Trauma* (a sudden impact to the head), a Brain tumour. The second reveal has nothing to do with how he died, but shows he was a "retired Bank Clerk" -i.e. not a Manager. The 3rd reveal which to me is intriguing is the informant was Alice A Jarman (present at the death) but no relationship shown.

Summary:
#1: Whatever caused the Hemiplegia he had had it for 49 days and the actual cause is not known. It could therefore have followed a blow to the head -accidental or on purpose - perhaps that is what sparked the 'murder' rumour (perhaps something known only to the family) and in which the police do not seem to have been involved. hence no media publicity. So as the heading asks: was it fact or fiction? Was his death by natural cause or was there credence to it being murder, or plain apocryphal?
#2: I am not at all surprised to find him a retired Bank Clerk as that is borne out by the 1881/1891 Censuses, even though to be fair in 1871 he is shown as a Bank Manager. So either he was NOT a Manager and exaggerated his position for the Census, or somewhere along the line was demoted or changed banks accepting a lower position. This only affects the story that he died as a Bank Manager!
#2: George at the time of his death was married to an Annie and some show her maiden name as 'Asher' or in my case 'Jamieson'. The 1991 Census shows her as Annie and married as Mackie. So who was Alice A Jarman? She also is shown as living at Sussex Cottages, Broadstairs, so not at St Albans Villas Ramsgate where George lived and died. She may have been a Cleaner or some such. For the moment that is work in progress.

Here is the PDF Certificate:


I do not really seek further opinion but they are welcome if anyone wants to give one. I do have other irons in the fire not least trying to get back to someone who interviewed a family member back in 2005 and one other private Ancestry member who I messaged (yes some do respond) who says he will look out his notes as he seems to recall he asked similar questions way back. Other than that it was an interesting exercise any way and all part of the addictive nature of family history research, as Margery commented earlier: see posting #10.