No place of death on an Ancestry record

[sarah333]

I am trying to locate the death certificate of a certain person, and the only death record I can find is on Ancestry. However, instead of stating a place of death, instead it says "last residence". I find this rather peculiar and wondered if anyone out there can help me.
I realise I may have placed this query in the wrong section, but I could not find the button for "post new thread" button!
I would appreciate any help, and thank you in advance.
Sarah

 

[G6JPG (John)]

I am trying to locate the death certificate of a certain person, and the only death record I can find is on Ancestry. However, instead of stating a place of death, instead it says "last residence". I find this rather peculiar and wondered if anyone out there can help me.

I imagine the reason for that is that the preprinted burial register forms have a column for "Abode" - and before the preprinted forms, the cleric is likely to write "John Smith of anytown was buried"; this combined with the lamentable, but pretty universal, habit (including among the various official sources, familysearch in particular) tendency to treat a burial record as the death record, and a christening record as a birth record. (Fair enough, before mid-1837 the birth and death records often don't exist, but still, treating christening and burial ones as birth and death is very sloppy; OK, the dates aren't going to be far out [especially in the case of death/burial, before refrigeration!], but the location can be some way off. And christening can be years - decades even - after birth.)

I realise I may have placed this query in the wrong section, but I could not find the button for "post new thread" button!
I would appreciate any help, and thank you in advance.
Sarah

Yes, it's quite hard to find! That's why I don't like fora - too hard to learn the hierarchy. For this one, I just monitor (all) new posts, and react to them wherever they appear.

 

[sarah333]

Thank you, John. You are quite right, it IS very sloppy! The "last residence" is near the area where he was born, but when looking on the GRO so that I could order a death cert, he could not be found! He doesn't appear on FMP either. Is it possible, I wonder, if he went abroad a while before he died, and that is why I can't find any other record relating to his death? Perhaps I should check Family Search and FreeBMD.
Thanks again for your help.

 

[G6JPG (John)]

You could give us his name and whatever places and dates you have, if they aren't private, and maybe someone here can spot something.
If you think he might have gone abroad, depending on things like how unusual a name he had, and whether you're talking a time period in which such things are available, you could always try manifests (passenger lists). FMP have some, Ancestry have some, I think even familysearch have some; don't know about MyHeritage or TheGenealogist. Expect inaccuracies in names, ages in particular, and occupations ("ag. lab" might describe himself as "farmer" or similar elevation, particularly when emigrating/immigrating).

 

[Heather]

Hi Sarah, if you post the details you have and where you have searched, I'm sure someone on this amazing site will be able to help you.

 

[G6JPG (John)]

You could also try the newsgroup soc.genealogy.britain; it may appear dormant, but whenever I've posted there recently (I recently asked about someone - or two - who appeared to have been baptised twice, but at a greater interval than is usually the case when that happens), and lots of helpful people pop out of the woodwork.

 

[sarah333]

Thank you John.
I will attach a copy of the death record that I spoke about on Ancestry. I looked most places, though not The Genealogist, as I have no sub for that. FMP had birth record, and electoral register info. which looks like he was at the same address until the end. The full postcode is
N17 9SD
I would appreciate any help in trying to find a death record, other than this one, as I can't find his death anywhere else, and not in the GRO either.
Thanks in advance.

Name Mr Clifford Linwood
Gender Male
Death Age 94
Birth Date 29 May 1928
Last Residence Greater London, England
Postal Code District N17 9
Death Date 3 Dec 2022

 

[G6JPG (John)]

FreeBMD indeed have no death (at all, any date!) for anyone of that name (they have birth - middle initial J - 1928Q2 [or "June" as I wish they wouldn't call it], Edmonton, 3a 941). I don't think you'll find him on a passenger list for as recent as 2022 or after - they tend to peter out early last century, and if it's USA/Canada/Australia/NZ, he's more likely to have flown these days, if he did go abroad. (Thinking about it, FreeBMD wouldn't have a death that recent, anyway; they only go up to before 2000.)
Ah - you said you could find no GRO; I just put in there 2022 ±2, Linwood, male, and it gives me nine hits: one is

LINWOOD, CLIFFORD 1928
GRO Reference: DOR Q3/2023 in ENFIELD (227-1A) Entry Number 526064293

which sounds like him! Not sure why you couldn't find it; I wondered if there was a spelling difference - since Linwood isn't that common, I didn't spe
cify a forename - but it looks as if that's come back with the same spelling (for Clifford) you have.


Glad to be of service, as a door on the Heart of Gold might say! Hope it enables you to get whatever further details you need. Remember Enfield will be just the registration district; https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/enfield.html will tell you … oh, would usually list all the places it covers, but in this case it seems it's only one, Enfield, though it does tell you what districts it has gained and lost since it was created (as a reg. district - I'm sure Enfield itself has been there a lot longer!) in 1965.

I tried putting N17 9 into https://www.google.co.uk/maps/, but it needs the full code (do you have it?); putting Enfield gives a nice outline https://maps.app.goo.gl/zPvpgSGW3vcy5BcFA, though I don't know if that's the same as the registration district, probably not.

I've just noticed that GRO say "DOR Q3/2023", which isn't the same quarter as the record you have - but 1928, his name, and the location make it sound likely. I'm guessing the record you've found has the date wrong*; I tend to put as little information as necessary into both FMP and GRO (and FreeBMD), and only give more if the number of hits is too big. That way I don't eliminate any misspellings or imprecise dates.

* Maybe it's one of those we discussed earlier - a burial (or, these days, cremation) date that's been falsely entered as a death date! These days, with refrigeration and how busy funeral directors are, the two can be some way apart.

 

[Heather]

Hi Sarah, did your Clifford Linwood have a middle name beginning with J ? The Clifford J Linwood birth registered in Edmonton Q2 3a 941 has a mothers maiden name Martin, is this correct?

 

[ChalfontR]

The record on Ancestry is from an unofficial collection of death data taken from various sources, like obituaries and funeral info, and compiled by a US company - it is useful, but incomplete and with many errors.

 

[sarah333]

Thank you so much, John, Heather and ChalfontR. The last person explains why the Ancestry record isn't that much help, and Heather, yes, his middle name was James! And Martin as the maiden name is also correct. John; I understand about Enfield; it is the borough where this guy lived, and I have the full postcode. I must have put in exact year only into the GRO, and therefore didn't come up with anything if, as you've told me, his death was actually registered as 2023. Only baptisms can be a few years later than the birth, certainly not deaths! I have found it now, so many thanks to all of you.

 

[G6JPG (John)]

Burials (and, especially nowadays, cremations) can be a bit later than deaths - especially now with refrigeration, and heavy load on funeral companies. Again, that can be sloppy entering of a burial (or cremation) date as a death date. (Though not in your case as you have 2022 and GRO have 2023.)
I nearly always use the ±2 years option (in GRO and FMP), only reducing it to ±1 (and eventually 0) if the number of hits is too great (roughly, if it goes to more than one "page" in the case of GRO). That way I don't miss it if the one I had is slightly out. (In fact on FMP I leave it blank at first, unless it's a very common name, but GRO limit you to ±2 from a specific year which must be specified.)

If you have the full postcode, especially address, you can put it into Google maps, and perhaps see the house! (Or, of course, visit it, if you're at this end of the country. You might meet people who knew him! [Who could maybe tell you things about him!])

 

[sarah333]

Thanks again. Yes, I usually opt for a 2 year either way (no option as you say on GRO!), though on FMP, or Devon Family History Society I sometomes use a larger gap, especially if there are a lot of records with the same name; something you find years ago, especially in Devon!
Yes, I could go and visit it, I suppose, which I have done when researching my own family history occasionally.