Convict brothers transported VDL -more information needed on one

[Bob Spiers]

......... stealing a watch 12 mos for money single one child I never was married lived with a man 4 years surgeons report

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of punctuation but that seems to make sense.

Like that Pauline and may explain the single/married contradiction. Have to go now but will return to ponder tomorrow. Thanks anyway.

 

[Tim]

My best guess would be, forget it, Pauline has just posted it!

Does WS fit any of her partners?

 

[Bob Spiers]

My best guess would be, forget it, Pauline has just posted it!

Bit cryptic Tim, who are you addressing? I know Pauline has posted and I responded!

Does WS fit any of her partners?

That's more like it but none so far discovered, but had it been WM, another story. But will be checking believe me.

 

[Heather]

......... stealing a watch 12 mos for money single one child I never was married lived with a man 4 years surgeons report

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of punctuation but that seems to make sense.

Well done Pauline, I think you nailed it.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Like that Pauline and may explain the single/married contradiction. Have to go now but will return to ponder tomorrow. Thanks anyway.

Now had time to digest your transcription Pauline and as Heather also says, I think you have nailed it. The important bit being: " she lived with a man for 4 years and had a child".

My follow-on posting trying to interpret her tattoo/arm marking (AH-WS-1842) might indicate she was born an Alice H and the love of her life was a WS. The year is quite important as she would have been between 16 and 18, depending on whether born 1824 or 1826. It might however be an 'in-memoriam' reference of some kind? Either way something to go on and see where it leads, if anywhere! Thanks for your help.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Forgive me for setting out my dilemma in trying to discover Alice McLean's origins , but I do so to act as an Aide Memoire for myself and perhaps in the hope someone will see a way forward. Here are the facts I am currently wrestling with.

I known Alice McLean-aged 21 was charged in August 1847 with Larceny along with William McLean aged 19 although he was only charged with aiding & abetting (or words to that effect). She was shown as Married. Here is the extract:

(Ignore the ditto that merely relates to the person who Committed them for Trial and the month)


Alice was sentenced to 7 years transportation and William was found not Guilty: here is the written extract.



As the 'Marriage' was later denied by Alice (see previous) and with William only 19 at the time and unlikely to be the man she lived with for 4 years, was she, or was she not, a Mclean by birth? If William was (say) her brother, then yes, she most probably was, but against this her I must take into consideration her previous conviction in 1843 was tied to the surname Thompson; (an alias or what?).

We know Alice admits to being from Edinburgh and I believe this to be so, but her crimes at least from 1843 onwards were all in the seedier parts of London. I can find no convincing Edinburgh births (or even Midlothian births) for any Alice McLean (the Lanarkshire/Glasgow one is not our Alice), nor for that matter any other credible Alice whatever!

We do know from 1847 forward, whilst awaiting transportation (her ship sailed Feb 1848 & arrived June 1848) she WAS known only as McLean, and remained so until in 1850 when she received permission to marry a fellow convict -my ancestor - Daniel Westbury. Strangely this surname was rarely used in reports always McLean, until from 1863 and separated from her husband who was serving time in a penal colony, she assumed the name Williams (don't ask).

Last but not least we have the hint of a surname 'H' from the tattoo AH/WS/1842 (also previous). I can find no trace of an Alice H and even less a credible WS partner. Alice seems to have just materialised in the 1840's in London, got into a life of crime which caused her to be transported to Van Diemen's Land, where she continued in the same vein. So wherefore art thou Alice I need to know?

Thank you for reading so far and at bear with me because it was good to get it off my chest.

 

[Tim]

Well if you told me Alice McLean was married, then would I be wrong in assuming McLean was not her maiden name?

What if William was the brother of her husband?

 

[VTinOZ]

and I nearly forgot this report of a tattoo on her arm. Does a wreath inside a heart indicate a death (as is likely) or perhaps a marriage, and more important was she born Alice "H"? (Every little helps)View attachment 1136

There is a book "Convict Tattoos: Marked Men and Women of Australia" published 2016, I'll ask at the library if it's available.. just in case albeit a longshot.
Another longshot, what is the possibility that the Initials are AW & HS rather than AH & WS?

I would tend to interpret the 'wreath in a heart' as a symbol of the love & loss of her child when she was transported, or perhaps even earlier, rather than as a death. More info needed for progress but still searching.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Well if you told me Alice McLean was married, then would I be wrong in assuming McLean was not her maiden name?

No most likely you would not, BUT the problem as you can read from my summary posting is I do not know if she was married. The 1847/48 Records claim she is (or she told them she was) but at some point whilst serving in the Penal Colony she denied this and said (see Pauline's transcription) she had 'never married but had lived with a man for 4 years' (there was also the matter of a child which is the one fact that does not change, but again I cannot substantiate same)...see later response to VTin OZ posting.
Meanhile, I have to edge my bets seeking an Alice Unknown.

What if William was the brother of her husband?

I think Alice's age -which admittedly varies +/-2 or so years - but around 21 when she was caught stealing in 1847 probably rules this out unless she married a man old enough to have a 19 year old son! But William (charged with her for aiding and abetting) is important I feel and, if anything, slightly weights the fact Alice was born McLean with William a brother, cousin perhaps?

 

[Bob Spiers]

There is a book "Convict Tattoos: Marked Men and Women of Australia" published 2016, I'll ask at the library if it's available.. just in case albeit a longshot.
Another longshot, what is the possibility that the Initials are AW & HS rather than AH & WS?

Thanks for your 'longshots'...took me a moment to work out the second one but now see what you mean. Sort of goes again the normal run of things I think as people initialise forename-surname (side by side) but who knows and something to bear in mind!

I would tend to interpret the 'wreath in a heart' as a symbol of the love & loss of her child when she was transported, or perhaps even earlier, rather than as a death. More info needed for progress but still searching.

That makes sense and certainly something a mother would want to do after forcibly being parted from her child. However given the prevalence of infant deaths of the time, and even worse in the slum area of London she lived, I would not rule out the tattoo being in memory of a child who died as an infant.

Against this, why use two sets of initials and not just record a child's name (even if not a baptised name a mother would have a name for a child even one who died at birth or soon after)? Two sets of initials tend to favour a romantic tie or, in memory of parents and the like. Hopefully all will be revealed, but wouldn't bank on it, but as you say, still searching!

 

[Tim]

The tattoo could be her parents initials? And a year of death?

 

[Tim]

If she had lived with a man for 4 years, in those days it's quite likely she took his surname.

probably rules this out unless she married a man old enough to have a 19 year old son!

I did actually say brother, not sure how you read son? i.e. Was William her partners' Brother?

 

[Bob Spiers]

If she had lived with a man for 4 years, in those days it's quite likely she took his surname.

Yes agree, but living with a man for 4 years aged 21 doesn't really gel..but then nothing does with Alice.

I did actually say brother, not sure how you read son? i.e. Was William her partners' Brother?

Yep you sure did bro, so mea culpa on that one. You could well be right and will take that on board, might lead somewhere.

 

[Heather]

Bob, have a look at this, it may give you some idea about convict life and there is a section about convict tattoos.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Bob, have a look at this, it may give you some idea about convict life and there is a section about convict tattoos.

I can't thank you enough Heather for your link to life in VDL, and the part about tattoos. I read it through from beginning to end and found it quite fascinating, especially the opening remark that "Gaoler and goaled (sic) communicated across a gulf of antagonisms". I think that says a lot about the severity of transportation for the least of crimes (in so many cases). No wonder many rebelled.

It was particularly poignant (if that's the right word) to read about the Port Arthur penal colony as my wife and I -accompanied by my sister and brother in law- visited there in 2004. It was an experience I shall never forget and much of what the article has to say about convict life there was conveyed on the site and visualised in the building remains. Little did I know then that I would one day discover convict ancestors who in all probability were incarcerated at Port Arthur or one of its satellite centres. No wonder Daniel & Alice chose not to be model prisoners and makes me wonder how brother George Frederick seemed to survive and fare better.

The article on tattoos was also interesting although I think Alice had her tattoos before being transported as it was recorded in her Reception Notes, but she certainly wouldn't have been out of place having same.

The article provides more than a little understanding about the quite heinous transportation method of punishment, which when all said and done, was little removed from slavery; as the article infers.

 

[VTinOZ]

To recap, some dates...
1842..date on tattoo with initials inside lower right arm, so she was left handed or someone else tattooed her.
(unknown if tattoo of heart/wreath was made at same time or later, where her tattoo/s were done, Edinburgh or London or onboard ship)
1843.. April, 1st conviction as Alice Thompson, age 19 = born 1824, confined 1 year (confined where? Is there a gaol record that may have her description?)
1847.. August, 2nd conviction as Alice McLean, age 21 = born 1826, married 1 child, transported 7 years (again is there an English gaol record?)
1848.. June, arrival VDL per Elizabeth & Henry, as Alice McLean, age 23 = born 1825.
Her VDL record would have been commenced on arrival, June 1848, with her details & description recorded.
This is the record that she corrects information & states 'single, 1 child' & '...never married lived with man 4 years'. Varying dates within convict record including
1850.. Married Daniel Westbury.
1860.. Sentence completed.
& up to
1873.. convicted Hamilton (Tas) as Alice Williams, housewife.

I think, & could easily be very wrong, something significant to Alice happened 1842, then aged approx. 16-18 years, was it that she left Edinburgh, parents died, fell in love, ran away ??? but so far we have nothing that identifies the initials AH/WS or AW/HS or relates those initials to 1842.
Where was she in 1841 census I wonder?
Fast forward to 1843, London, she's arrested & convicted as Thompson, why the word 'confined' 1 year, rather than sentenced or gaoled 1 year, was she pregnant at the time, did she give birth whilst confined? If so I'd think the child's surname at birth would be Thompson.
On to 1847, still London, now she's convicted as McLean, married, 1 child & sentenced to transportation.

If she left 1 child behind when transported, rather than the child died, what would have become of the possibly infant to 3/4 year old child named Thompson or McLean?

Sorry Bob, I only seem to raise more questions than answers today.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Sorry Bob, I only seem to raise more questions than answers today.

You've done wonderfully well and your comments flow on so well from my own. In no particular order but as thoughts occur to me.

*I could not find her in the 1841 Census, in Edinburgh/Scotland or London/England but under what surname. She may have been one of the several 'A'; 'T'; 'Mc' or 'H' unknowns or just a plain female Unknown/Unknown.
*The Thompson name still fascinates me and will be quite cross to find it was a pure alias
*Love your forensic like comment about being left handed or someone else tattooed her; Sherlock would be proud of you.
*Have tried to find English Gaol records without much success, but perhaps I did not try hard enough so will persevere.
*As for 'something happened to Alice circa 1842', couldn't agree more. How did she get from Edinburgh to London and I don't mean by what route, but by what circumstance. That is likely the crux of the matter and when resolved we may get the answer to the tattoo initials and the live in partner...and of course her maiden name.
*Interesting about a child remaining but under what name and left with whom or, at worst, taken to the Parish Workhouse. Won't be easy to track without a name
*Still puzzling about her 1863/1878 convictions using the identity as Williams. Perhaps another cohabitation, a marriage(?) or more likely a pure alias to avoid being linked to McLean...which didn't work of course.

As you say each thought raises more questions, but on the basis of two heads are better than one -or in the case of the Forum likely multiple heads - a break through may be around the corner. (One can hope)

 

[Bob Spiers]

Follow up for VTinOZ:
I found in Newgate Prison Registers for 1843 Alice Thompson, her crime:

We see Alice is 19 (so born c1824) and a Spinster

Her sentence:


5 is the record number: 12 is the date in May when tried; the Co. S?? comes under the heading 'Before whom' (tried) : The Verdict Guilty and 1 year Ho Co? The abbreviated "Ho Co" appears quite a bit in the register and includes sentences of months as 6 Mo Ho Co. (It may appear as No Co but when enlarged clearly an H).
Other sentences just state x years without further comment and the inevitable 'Trans x years.

We recall her trial conclusion showed Confined one year, so this may explain Co, otherwise perhaps House of Correction but am open to offers on this.

(I remind that when sentenced in 1847 as Alice McLean (aged 21 Married - so year of birth 1826), the court were reminded that she had been previously convicted as Alice Thompson). She was transported for the second offence.

 

[Heather]

Bob, glad you found the article interesting, we have also been to Port Arthur, a fascinating, but eerie place. I'm not sure if you have seen this before but thought I would include it. It is a criminal register for 1843 which includes an Alice Thompson and a William Thompson.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Bob, glad you found the article interesting, we have also been to Port Arthur, a fascinating, but eerie place. I'm not sure if you have seen this before but thought I would include it. It is a criminal register for 1843 which includes an Alice Thompson and a William Thompson.

Interesting information Heather and the link appeared to work, but after insisting I need to visit Ancestry UK site (and took me there) advised 'error' page no longer available and nothing would persuade it to show your link page.

I decided to search Ancestry (UK) myself and choosing Middlesex as the Location found an Alice Thompson but the image was far too feint to discern, and I found one for a William Thompson but the image was also poor.

I switched to FMP and for 1843 found a William Thomspon - a Weaver aged 20 charged with breaking and entering - no sign of Alice on his page (and I've already shown the FMP image for Alice previously). The remainder for a William Thompson were -and here I have to smile - as a Witness Police Constable at various trials.

I will try again later when I have more time but meanwhile would appreciate it if you can you provide details or an image so I can see if they fit in to the scheme of things.