• Only registered members can see all the forums - if you've received an invitation to join (it'll be on your My Summary page) please register NOW!

  • If you're looking for the LostCousins site please click the logo in the top left corner - these forums are for existing LostCousins members only.
  • This is the LostCousins Forum. If you were looking for the LostCousins website simply click the logo at the top left.
  • It's easier than ever before to check your entries from the 1881 Census - more details here

How do you handle name variations?

Alexander Bisset said:
There are all sorts of unusual NE Scotland pronunciations eg: The parish of Monquhitter is an example of a common letter grouping that catches most out, it's the "quh" part that causes issues. I wonder how people here think that one might be pronounced.
Click to expand...
A little (internet) bird tells me it is on a par with Quythewoollens in Dumfries which I understand comes out as Whitewoollens. So by this token Monquihitter would likely sound as Mon-wit-ter?
 
Sometimes a change of name (such as when a woman marries) can have magical properties -they disappear: genealogically speaking of course. This happened to my Gx2 Grandmother on the death of her first husband she became a Fennellow and -just as the parrot in the MP sketch - was no more; or so it seemed.:eek:

It was not done by mirrors but her new surname. Previous to his marriage her husband came and went within Censuses and BMD records under many guises; in all a total of 7 surname variations other than the one given at birth. Finally after being able to do an address search I found them under a 8th surname variation: Fineltore. But right at the very end, as a widow again, she was shown finally as Fennellow.

Here are the 8 variations of Fennellow: Fenelow, Fendelow, Finnelow, Finnelon, Finetone, Findlow, Fennelley & Fineltore
 
The Friends of Norfolk Dialect site has page on pronouncing Norfolk placenames - gives some idea why census officers in other parts of the country got the birth places in a tangle. (Not sure it explains why a Norfolk officer in 1861 wrote Beeston Regis as Biston Ridges)
My grandfather was born in Happisburgh which is pronounced ...Hazebro
 
On the lighter side I am reminded of one of those Candid camera type sketches of a few years ago, when someone in London feigning a pronounced foreign accent asked directions of passers by to Che-ap-sid-ee (pronouncing each syllable separately). All were baffled until finally shown the piece of paper he was holding with 'Cheapside' written on it and explaining it was pronounced 'Cheap-side'. Of course it was a gag, but unless you are a native of any area, it is the sort of pronunciation error easy to make.
 
Thought that you would like to know that Helensburgh in NSW is pronounced "Helens-berg" or known more commonly to the locals as "The Berg".
 
Margery said:
Thought that you would like to know that Helensburgh in NSW is pronounced "Helens-berg" or known more commonly to the locals as "The Berg".
Click to expand...

In NE Scotland, the town of Fraserburgh is commonly known as 'The Broch'. And, despite that, the town is not pronounced 'Fraserbroch', but 'Fraserburra'.


I have an idea that the authorities in the USA did a wholesale job on places names ending 'borough', 'burgh' etc , and changed them to either 'boro' or 'burg'' (possibly to end this pronunciation confusion). I understand that Pittsburgh (Pennsylvania), named in imitation of Edinburgh, refused to give in.
 
Bob Spiers said:
On the lighter side I am reminded of one of those Candid camera type sketches of a few years ago, when someone in London feigning a pronounced foreign accent asked directions of passers by to Che-ap-sid-ee (pronouncing each syllable separately). All were baffled until finally shown the piece of paper he was holding with 'Cheapside' written on it and explaining it was pronounced 'Cheap-side'. Of course it was a gag, but unless you are a native of any area, it is the sort of pronunciation error easy to make.
Click to expand...



Similar to 'Burnt-is-land', then ?
 
I have a list of descendents of John Heppenstall of Lockwood (West Riding of Yorkshire), ten generations from 1600, compiled by the late David Heppenstall Mellor. He used the spelling 'Heppenstall' for all variants of the surname occurring in the family. However, he did not list the variants that he consolidated. I'm not sure if this was helpful or not. In expanding the line I have across several variants at different periods in time.
 
I was reading in a magazine about the making of the second adventure of THE HOBBIT now showing in Cinemas. Apparently the cast had to be schooled in 'Middle Earth' pronunciations and as someone who has read the Hobbit & Lord of the Rings many times, I was interested in the pronunciation of the Dragon's name which Tolkien recorded as SMAUG. To me that was SMORG but the pronunciation they had to learn was to refer to him as SMOWG with the 'au' sounding as 'ow' as in owl. So this is how Cinema goers will hear the word spoken.

I know Middle Earth is fantasy land but it just shows that hearing a word spoken is no indication of its spelling. No wonder in days gone by names were recorded as heard and depending on the literacy and regional schooling of the scribe (and possibly hearing and eyesight), so many variations of spelling and pronunciation came into being.
 
The difference with Tolkien is that he wrote dozens and dozens of journals exploring language, pronunciation and the roots of words, it was his passion. So unlike many authors there are authoritative writings from the author himself about how the numerous languages he produced (elvish, dwarvish, orcish, middle earth english etc) is to sound. Given Peter Jacksons attention to detail I have little doubt that it is pronounced in the film how Tolkien would have wished. Whether he would have wished this film to be quite so interminably long and drawn out is quite another matter. I'm sure I dozed off in the middle but I if I did I didn't feel I missed anything.
 
Alexander Bisset said:
..Given Peter Jacksons attention to detail I have little doubt that it is pronounced in the film how Tolkien would have wished. Whether he would have wished this film to be quite so interminably long and drawn out is quite another matter. I'm sure I dozed off in the middle but I if I did I didn't feel I missed anything.
Click to expand...

Yes I think Tolkien would have been impressed at Peter Jackson's pedantic attention to detail in how they spoke and particularly the effort made to replicate appearances. The Dwarves I read were almost entirely covered in prosthetics and a colossal amount of yak hair was used to simulate the hairy appearance of the dwellers of mid earth.

But less impressed with the number of additional characters, particularly elves -including Legolas from LOTR - as they thought there were too few in the Hobbit. Indeed from the outset Peter and his co-writers decided more females were required to create balance so they 'borrowed' from the mythology of LOTR. This is what made the film so long as they padded and invented scenes not part of Tolkien's original story.

I have yet to see the film unless my daughter is able to persuade me to visit the cinema (her husband is not a fantasy fan) and she is hinting at me accompanying her and my granddaughter after Christmas. Otherwise I will await until the DVD is available and at least that way I can doze off in comfort.
 
Bob Spiers said:
But less impressed with the number of additional characters, particularly elves -including Legolas from LOTR - as they thought there were too few in the Hobbit. Indeed from the outset Peter and his co-writers decided more females were required to create balance so they 'borrowed' from the mythology of LOTR. This is what made the film so long as they padded and invented scenes not part of Tolkien's original story.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize that they had been added to jazz up the story a bit like that, but thought when I watched the movie that they made a fun addition to the storyline. And I speak as a fan of the novels from childhood. In actuality, they would have been present in the novel as well, but just as bit characters, so they didn't need a speaking role. But I imagine to get Orlando Bloom to appear in your movie you have to pay him something LOL.

But to keep this post on topic - one of the most annoying things that I have heard moving to the Midwest US is the mispronunciation of English cities and places. For example, I live in Illinois, and they pronounce Lincolnshire as Lin-con-shy-er which drives me bonkers because I'm used to hearing it as Lincoln-shur. Its no wonder our ancestors had atrocious spelling if every place pronounces other places differently. Dunfermline is another that is often mispronounced and they butcher the Scottish.

(And don't get me started on Athens (long A), Cairo (Cay-ro), and Creve Coeur (Creeve Cur) and other major cities in Illinois that are completely bafflingly pronounced.)
 
Liberty said:
In NE Scotland, the town of Fraserburgh is commonly known as 'The Broch'. And, despite that, the town is not pronounced 'Fraserbroch', but 'Fraserburra'.
I have an idea that the authorities in the USA did a wholesale job on places names ending 'borough', 'burgh' etc , and changed them to either 'boro' or 'burg'' (possibly to end this pronunciation confusion). I understand that Pittsburgh (Pennsylvania), named in imitation of Edinburgh, refused to give in.
Click to expand...
Then again so is Edinburgh. It has always, in my lifetime, been pronounced Edinburra by Scots never Edinboro (horrible Anglicisation), or Edinburg (inaccurate literal pronunciation).
 
Alexander Bisset said:
Then again so is Edinburgh. It has always, in my lifetime, been pronounced Edinburra by Scots never Edinboro (horrible Anglicisation), or Edinburg (inaccurate literal pronunciation).
Click to expand...

I am English and pronounce it 'burra'. Perhaps it is the "barth, grarse" people who do "boro" ? (wake up Bob) ;)
 
emjay said:
I am English and pronounce it 'burra'. Perhaps it is the "barth, grarse" people who do "boro" ? (wake up Bob) ;)
Click to expand...

Did someone call? I too say Edin-burra although the 'glottal stop' brigade in Kent/Essex (sorry Peter) would no doubt say Edin'br as they do Cha'em (for Chatham). As for the 'grarse' brigade, yes I can well imagine it coming out as Edin'boro:confused:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top