Saving on heating bills

[Bob Spiers]

The dishwasher goes on once a day on average - it's always full, so there is no waste.

I do not for one minute doubt the sincerity of your convictions, but I cannot help but realise we live in vastly different worlds. I do not even understand why anyone except other than a family of 6 plus would have need to use a dishwasher once a day. How does a dishwasher become full -assuming two people in the house like us - other than by consigning crockery/pots to the dishwasher after each use and using new each and every time?

Having said that I have a cousin and husband who do just that mainly because neither enjoy 'washing up'. As a result they have a vast range of crockery/cutlery -and a dozen or more mugs on hooks -and each gets loaded into the washer after use. They even have a waste disposal machine in the sink to 'chew up' left-over food.

My wife is an ardent believer in clearing as we go, and I find that quite satisfying. Clearing the table (or as as a Yorkshire Aunt would say 'siding the dishes') is my job as is scraping leftover food into the 'food caddy'; my wife then takes over. For snacks, coffee/tea drinks in the lounge, my wife considers it her job to take them to the kitchen after use. (no quibbles with that). No soiled dishes/pots left in the sink for more than a minute or so. Limited use of the dishwasher which - as it is my job to empty first thing in the morning - is not my favourite chore. I much prefer to take the handful of mugs, plates & cutlery from the draining board and pack away, or more often use again.

Clearly 'horses for courses' and not a wisp of a mention of water conservancy or energy saving. Despite this, in our own way and for our own reasons, we are mindful of the need to conserve. This does not run to using vegetable water to wash up - although some is usefully used in gravy making - otherwise it goes straight down the drain.

SUMMARY: In our own home we do, as we have always done, that which suits our purpose and way of life.

 

[peter]

I do not for one minute doubt the sincerity of your convictions, but I cannot help but realise we live in vastly different worlds. I do not even understand why anyone except other than a family of 6 plus would have need to use a dishwasher once a day. How does a dishwasher become full -assuming two people in the house like us - other than by consigning crockery/pots to the dishwasher after each use and using new each and every time?

It's clear from what you've told us that you (or rather your wife) wash up during the day, so I don't think you have any conception of how many pans and how much crockery a 2-person household actually uses. I don't wash up as I go - there's no point when you have a dishwasher. Some items are reused without washing, typically mugs and the occasional saucepan, but otherwise they all go into the dishwasher. Yes, clearing as we go - but doing it in a way that is better for our pockets, better for our hands, better for the environment, and less time-consuming.

Even if the dishwasher only went on every other day, or twice a week, it would still save water and electricity compared to handwashing. Just because washing by hand is more arduous, and might seem more virtuous, doesn't make it better for the environment.

we are mindful of the need to conserve. This does not run to using vegetable water to wash up - although some is usefully used in gravy making - otherwise it goes straight down the drain

Why tip hot water down the drain when it could be used to rinse out a pan? It's just wasteful. If you were really mindful of the need to conserve you would have read the Which? article and accepted the findings rather than trying to convince us that the old ways are always the best.

SUMMARY: In our own home we do, as we have always done, that which suits our purpose and way of life.

To be fair, I was surprised to discover - some years ago - how much more efficient dishwashers are. But I accepted the evidence and altered my habits accordingly.

 

[Pauline]

I must admit that, like Bob, I'm a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to washing up and dishwashers - having tried both, I'm not a great fan of dishwashers, particularly in small households. Like Peter, we reused things like mugs, but we nevertheless started running out of things well before the dishwasher was full. All in all it always seemed more trouble than it was worth.

Of course being economical with resources matters but has to be balanced against lifestyle and convenience. We are very careful about how much water we use when washing up, and we likewise make use of vegetable water* for soaking extra dirty things.

EDIT: * Actually, thinking about it, we don’t often have much vegetable water these days as almost all vegetable are done in the microwave. But we used to do this!

 

[peter]

we nevertheless started running out of things well before the dishwasher was full

If that's the case there are two options: get rid of the dishwasher, or buy more crockery and pans. In the old days I used to cater for 12 or more at Christmas, so we've always had plenty of both.

There are some items where it doesn't make sense to have more than one - for example, the Maslin pan in which I make jam - but it's rare that this leads to problems.

 

[Pauline]

get rid of the dishwasher

I don't think the landlord would have approved - it wasn't our dishwasher! But we did stop using it, so same principle.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Yes, clearing as we go - but doing it in a way that is better for our pockets, better for our hands, better for the environment, and less time-consuming.

Those so called benefits have no impact in our household. Pockets: Saving twopence halfpenny now and again(OK fourpence) neither here or there. Hands: My wife reminds "hands that do dishes can be mild ..." (Fairy detergent advert); Environment: Negligible and immeasurable minutiae; Less time-consuming; No way Jose, and on this we totally disagree and takes no note that some people (my wife most certainly) consider 'doing the dishes' almost a pleasure. (Well not quite but she is never content until they are done)

If you were really mindful of the need to conserve you would have read the Which? article and accepted the findings rather than trying to convince us that the old ways are always the best.

I knew it would not be long before Which came to your rescue as you mention it time after time. OK it is your choice of buying bible and that works for you and -not content with reminding your dishwasher was a Which recommendation - you quote an article (which I have not read nor intend to read) that might might just revolutionise my (our) thinking as it did yours; why am I not surprised? For the record I will (as per Pauline's comment) continue on our Dinosaurian path possibly as a 'Spinosaurus', but not that fussy.

Edit: According to my wife I have more pots and pans -knives -kitchen appliances - to satisfy 10 households, and bemoans when I purchase another that takes my fancy. We have basic table crockery for everyday use and heaven knows how much tucked away for special occasions. Sadly -or perhaps not so sadly -these days are few and far between and we even go away for the season that falls in December, but which by tradition many will know I cannot name.

 

[peter]

Those so called benefits have no impact in our household. Pockets: Saving twopence halfpenny now and again(OK fourpence) neither here or there. Hands: My wife reminds "hands that do dishes can be mild ..." (Fairy detergent advert); Environment: Negligible and immeasurable minutiae; Less time-consuming; No way Jose, and on this we totally disagree and takes no note that some people (my wife most certainly) consider 'doing the dishes' almost a pleasure. (Well not quite but she is never content until they are done)

Sometimes I wish that Mrs Spiers would speak for herself - she might not be quite as happy slaving in the kitchen as you seem to think.

The key point is that you have a dishwasher and it would not only be more cost effective, but also better for the environment to use it.

I knew it would not be long before Which came to your rescue as you mention it time after time. OK it is your choice of buying bible and that works for you and -not content with reminding your dishwasher was a Which recommendation - you quote an article (which I have not read nor intend to read) that might might just revolutionise my (our) thinking as it did yours; why am I not surprised?

I don't need anyone to come to my rescue - the facts back up what I've been telling you. I just thought you were more likely to be convinced by an independent article (published by a charity set up by consumers to represent their interests), than by my assertions.

 

[Susan48]

We have a dishwasher and run it when it's full which is most days. However, many items of equipment in our kitchen are not dishwasher proof so we always have to do some washing up by hand. As we use cast iron casseroles for cooking it tends to be the crockery and cutlery and dishes that go in the dishwasher rather than heavily soiled pots and pans, so I run the dishwasher on an economy cycle at a low temperature and use our domestic hot water for the pots and pans. As someone once observed, you can spend so long arranging everything to fit in the dishwasher that it would have been quicker to do the washing up by hand!

 

[Sue_3]

We first had a dishwasher in 1983, so have almost 40 years of experience. When we both went out to work we usually put the dishwasher on 4 or 5 times a week. Now that we're both retired it's at least 6 or 7 times a week. We eat three times a day and most days we cook at least one meal from scratch, so we have pots, pans and utensils as well as cutlery and crockery. The dishwasher uses far less water and detergent than we would by washing it all up by hand. Over time I have found that most of our peer group have moved from being astonished that we had a dishwasher to either owning one themselves or bemoaning the fact that they don't have space for one in their kitchen. However I have a cousin who WILL NOT use one, even though there was a brand new one in the home he bought well over a decade ago. He uses it as a surface to store things on ...

 

[peter]

you can spend so long arranging everything to fit in the dishwasher that it would have been quicker to do the washing up by hand!

I would certainly have a problem with someone else's crockery or someone else's dishwasher - but I know precisely where things go in my own dishwasher, so no time is wasted.

 

[Pauline]

I’ve been looking further into the hand versus machine dishwashing issue, and because there are so many variables, it isn’t always as clear cut as you might think.

For hand dishwashing the main variables are how you do it and how your domestic water is heated.

For machines the key variables are its efficiency rating, the cycle used, how much pre rinsing is needed (if any) and if you have items that have to be washed by hand.

‘A’ rated dishwashers are not that common and tend to be too expensive for many people, but may use around 9 litres of water and 0.5 kWh on an eco cycle. A normal cycle on a lower rated machine may use around 12-17 litres of water and 1 - 1.5 kWh. Pre rinsing or more frequent use may sometimes be necessary with an eco or light cycle.

I can’t accurately estimate how much water we use with hand dishwashing in the average day, but as a rough estimate, based on the size of the bowl and our methodology, around 15 - 20 litres per day. Our smart meter display tells me we use around 1 - 1.5 kWh of gas per day on heating this water.

So, comparing with one normal cycle per day (and no pre rinsing or extra hand washing), we use a bit more water than an average machine, but because we have a gas combi boiler, the cost of heating the water is considerably less.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Sometimes I wish that Mrs Spiers would speak for herself - she might not be quite as happy slaving in the kitchen as you seem to think.

I had decided not to comment further but (whilst chuckling to myself at the thought my wife could be a slave to anything) I quoted your comment to her and, to my surprise, heard her say …"he's right"...(wait for it) ..."IF the quantity of things to wash are of 'slavish' proportion then I merely load them in the dishwasher. Otherwise for normal everyday things I prefer to wash by hand and no slavery involved".

We have long agreed on the separation of chores and began married life when things were reversed: she cooked I washed up and no dishwasher in sight. She was never 'happy' cooking (nor was I washing up) so inevitably we switched. She taught me the basics and I picked up others on the go. My wife was a good plain cook (superb roasts and such and she will take over if they are on the menu-which these days is rare). My specialities are curry, fish, seafood, and pasta dishes; and all shades between as I like experimenting. (Most successful, some not so). Going back a few years we also entertained which is when we decided to buy a dishwasher. We have had the same one for many years and it performs well, but these days not used often.

So now, and for many years prior, I decide on meals virtually for the week taking into account our likes and dislikes - preparing 2 different meals is quite common and taken in my stride. When it comes to what food or ingredients to buy the decisions are largely mine with individual idiosyncrasies on brands taken into account . (I also buy online meat, fish, seafood -and yes even pre-cooked meals - and have long standing accounts with many reputable sources, including one with the Royal Warrant). Then, cometh the day and the hour, I prepare, cook and serve to the table and clear away after we have eaten. That is where my wife takes over and whilst going about my tasks (and yes some are of slavish proportion) she sits in her armchair, perhaps watching TV or more likely playing games on her Tablet and awaits my "dinner is served" comment. Whilst she attends to things in the kitchen, she returns, more often than not, to find me snoozing in my 'comfy' recliner armchair.

If all that ain't fair I'm a Dutchman*... one of my mother's many sayings, and someone who rarely complained when she shopped- prepared, cooked, served, cleared away and washed up. And when Dad demanded 'give your mother a hand' (not he you notice) we kids thought that was most unjust. Sorry Mom!

*and note I have dropped the 'Van' from my name.

 

[PhilGee]

If, or how, a dishwasher is used is always what "you" consider best. Our dishwasher is "8 place settings" compatible and used when full - every three days for crockery, pans just don't fit efficiently (and the most used is not dishwasher safe).

 

[peter]

So, comparing with one normal cycle per day (and no pre rinsing or extra hand washing), we use a bit more water than an average machine, but because we have a gas combi boiler, the cost of heating the water is considerably less.

As you say, it depends on individual circumstances. We don't have gas, so that isn't an option, and pre-rinsing is never necessary with our Best Buy dishwasher, which we normally run in the Eco mode overnight.

 

[peter]

If, or how, a dishwasher is used is always what "you" consider best. Our dishwasher is "8 place settings" compatible and used when full - every three days for crockery, pans just don't fit efficiently (and the most used is not dishwasher safe).

Our dishwasher holds 14 place settings and uses 9.5 litres of water (according to this B&Q listing). I couldn't possibly hand wash and rinse that amount of crockery with so little water - it would barely fill a typical washing up bowl. All of our crockery and pans are dishwasher safe.

 

[Susan48]

Those of us who have older appliances will have seen their efficiency superseded as newer models appear. Our dishwasher was installed when new 14 years ago as part of a refit of the kitchen when we moved into the house, and had an A efficiency rating (13 litres of water and 1.05 kWh for a cold water connection on the Energy save cycle). As it's still working well we have no intention of replacing it. I assume that Peter's dishwasher is a much more recent model, and it will be interesting to see how far its efficiency is improved on over the next 5, 10 or even 15 years.

 

[peter]

Those of us who have older appliances will have seen their efficiency superseded as newer models appear. Our dishwasher was installed when new 14 years ago as part of a refit of the kitchen when we moved into the house, and had an A efficiency rating (13 litres of water and 1.05 kWh for a cold water connection on the Energy save cycle). As it's still working well we have no intention of replacing it. I assume that Peter's dishwasher is a much more recent model, and it will be interesting to see how far its efficiency is improved on over the next 5, 10 or even 15 years.

Our dishwasher is 6 years old, so no doubt also superceded by newer models. Though it's reassuring to see that the latest list of Best Buys is also headed by a Bosch.

 

[peter]

So now, and for many years prior, I decide on meals virtually for the week taking into account our likes and dislikes - preparing 2 different meals is quite common and taken in my stride. When it comes to what food or ingredients to buy the decisions are largely mine with individual idiosyncrasies on brands taken into account . (I also buy online meat, fish, seafood -and yes even pre-cooked meals - and have long standing accounts with many reputable sources, including one with the Royal Warrant). Then, cometh the day and the hour, I prepare, cook and serve to the table and clear away after we have eaten. That is where my wife takes over and whilst going about my tasks (and yes some are of slavish proportion) she sits in her armchair, perhaps watching TV or more likely playing games on her Tablet and awaits my "dinner is served" comment. Whilst she attends to things in the kitchen, she returns, more often than not, to find me snoozing in my 'comfy' recliner armchair.

Mrs Spiers might be interested to know that in our house I am responsible for planning the menus, drawing up the shopping list. buying the food and preparing it, cooking the meals, and stacking the dishwasher. I also make my wife breakfast in bed every single morning (even on my birthday). However it isn't an unfair arrangement, although I mow the lawns and do most of the weeding, my wife is in charge of the garden, and - now she works from home - pretty much everything else.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Mrs Spiers might be interested to know that in our house I am responsible for planning the menus, drawing up the shopping list. buying the food and preparing it, cooking the meals, and stacking the dishwasher. I also make my wife breakfast in bed every single morning

Bully for you Peter and at least we have something in common -minus stacking the dishwasher - and yes I too serve my wife breakfast in bed and always have. But as someone who has been gardening for what seems like for ever (and pretty knowledgeable with it even if I say so myself),the garden also comes under my wing with the occasional dead-heading by my wife and weeding as I cannot kneel. Now I am in my 80's, I also rely on a son-in-law (a professional Landscape gardener, and I mean professional) who comes over two or three times a year to spruce things up, cutting hedges, pruning, lopping , even lawn cutting although I tend to that usually. Note also when your age I coped with cooking and gardening unaided. Tempus fugit has a lot to answer for.

 

[Pauline]

On the subject of chores and saving on energy bills, after spending much of this morning cleaning our house, my next energy saving tip is to clean less - or give it up altogether! Vacuuming is not one of my favourite activities, and it adds insult to injury to see the smart meter display glaring its amber warning light at me and the usage costs rising rapidly.

By the way, I'm very glad to report that my husband doesn't bring me breakfast in bed as it's not something I'd enjoy. But we always have a mug of coffee before we get up and he makes that.