LIVER AND BACON WITH OR WITHOUT ONIONS - THE AMBROSIA OF THE GODS

[Bob Spiers]

but we don't pronounce it the same - think Bathurst (Bath-est) or Launceston (Lon-cess-ton).

We took in Tasmania on our second visit and as I recall Launceston was pronounced 'Lorn-ston' (or perhaps 'Lon-ston') which for once accorded with my own interpretation of how I thought it should be pronounced. Although just a visitor I never heard it pronounced Lon-cess-ton but I may have mis-heard the 'cess' bit.

 

[peter]

There are plenty of English names which are pronounced in an unexpected way, such as Magdalene College, Caius College, Featherstonehaugh, Wymondham etc.

 

[Bob Spiers]

The book is entitled 'Bradman's Best', subtitled 'Sir Donald Bradman's Selection of the Best Team in Cricket History'.

And a pound to a penny my old adversary Alan has the book on his shelves. Alan and his wife are still in contact with my sister and both have moved since the days of our visits but both still in Victoria. I shall have to ask her to ask him if he knows of the book -and tell her to stand back and await the explosion and wouldn't be surprised to find he also knows (knew) the author.

 

[At home in NZ]

We took in Tasmania on our second visit and as I recall Launceston was pronounced 'Lorn-ston' (or perhaps 'Lon-ston') which for once accorded with my own interpretation of how I thought it should be pronounced. Although just a visitor I never heard it pronounced Lon-cess-ton but I may have mis-heard the 'cess' bit.

I've been to Launceston in Cornwall (England) and to Launceston in Tasmania and I can never remember which one is pronounced Lornston and which one is Lorncesstn

 

[Bob Spiers]

There are plenty of English names which are pronounced in an unexpected way, such as Magdalene College, Caius College, Featherstonehaugh, Wymondham etc.

And try getting your head around Cogenhoe in Northamptonshire, pronounced 'Cook-no'. There are many more Northamptonshire place names not pronounced as spelled but strangely enough Towcester (where there is a racecourse) seems to be universally accepted as 'Toaster' and I do not know a soul who pronounces it as spelled.

The same for the county of Worcestershire which, unless pronounced by an American when referring to its famous sauce as War-cess-ter-shire - is simply 'Wooster' although a Brummie might emphasise the 'oo' as 'u': Wuster.

 

[CeeJay]

My particular favourites are Hunstanton (pronounced Hun-ston) and Happisburgh (pronounced Hays-bruh).

 

[Bob Spiers]

When asking my sister how she came to terms with Australian pronunciations or terms for things in the early days, she reminded of an actual embarrassment when serving a customer in the Convenience store they opened in an outback town in Victoria after a few years managing (and later owning) a Burger shop in Melbourne.

One day a customer asked for some 'Durex' and she answered they didn't sell same and suggested they try the town pharmacy. However, the customer pointing to something on the shelves asked "what's that if it isn't Durex"? Seeing where he was pointing she responded that that was Sellotape only to receive the answer that he wasn't concerned about the brand, he just wanted Durex tape.

She was quickly to learn from fellow shopkeepers that Durex or Durex tape was the 'term' commonly used in Australia when people shopped for sticky tape regardless of brand. In the UK of course Durex had a totally different meaning.

She said that was a mistake she didn't make twice.

 

[Helen7]

Melbourne Park (the tennis centre) is well worth the visit, even if your son has never heard of Rod Laver! There are plenty more sporting statues around the precinct now, which includes both cricket and AFL players.

Yes, we had a good day there back in 2013, and we enjoyed visiting Melbourne in general (our son had been there before, of course, so showed us around).

 

[Bob Spiers]

My particular favourites are Hunstanton (pronounced Hun-ston)

Are you sure about Hunstanton having a short-form name pronounced HUN-STON? I say this because having worked in Northampton for many years, and met my second wife there, I learned her family -and she as a child - went to Hunstanton every year by train, and occasionally by coach on a day-trip. (Often all that could be afforded). It was one of the nearest coastal resorts to a town that is pretty far from the sea in any direction.

Years later, and after moving to Kent, instead of picking up her parents and bringing them to Kent which has any number of coastal resorts, as a treat we decided to take them to Hunstanton and booked a B&B for a few days. We both have fond memories of that time especially as it turned out to be that last we would holiday with them, as her mother died not long after. I asked my wife if she could recall the short form name but insists it was never referred to other than by its 3 syllable HUN-STAN-TON and has no memory of it being referred to as Hun-ston.

Of course this is just one subjective memory so I presume the short-form must have been reserved for Norfolk natives and something they kept to themselves?

 

[peter]

Try this Google search: 'how do locals pronounce hunstanton'

 

[Bob Spiers]

Try this Google search: 'how do locals pronounce hunstanton'

Well I did, but guess what, when I told my wife the result she said: "go tell that to the Marines"! (I think that means she is a little sceptical - and wonders why, over the years neither she nor her parents before her, ever heard it referred to as such).

As for me I am quite prepared to believe such short-forms exist with their origins often lost in antiquity. If Brummagem can turn into Birmingham and local places from my birth area lose a syllable here and there when spoken of in purist terms, I am sure Hunstanton can survive having a 3 syllable pronunciation.

 

[peter]

Well I did, but guess what, when I told my wife the result she said: "go tell that to the Marines"! (I think that means she is a little sceptical - and wonders why, over the years neither she nor her parents before her, ever heard it referred to as such).

As for me I am quite prepared to believe such short-forms exist with their origins often lost in antiquity. If Brummagem can turn into Birmingham and local places from my birth area lose a syllable here and there when spoken of in purist terms, I am sure Hunstanton can survive having a 3 syllable pronunciation.

Sadly a lot of the old pronunciations are being lost in Norfolk. I've never heard anyone - other than my wife and myself - refer to Ran'orth or Ranner; everyone seems to call it Ran-worth. Nor for that matter do I often hear references to Narridge. But Happisburgh and Wymondham have kept the traditional pronunciations, perhaps because they're so much simpler.

 

[Heather]

We took in Tasmania on our second visit and as I recall Launceston was pronounced 'Lorn-ston' (or perhaps 'Lon-ston') which for once accorded with my own interpretation of how I thought it should be pronounced. Although just a visitor I never heard it pronounced Lon-cess-ton but I may have mis-heard the 'cess' bit.

We pronounce it Lon-cess-ton Bob, but I have to add that we are originally from Lancashire and now live in "Melburn"

 

[Margery]

We pronounce it Lon-cess-ton Bob

And the locals refer to it as "Lonnie".

 

[CeeJay]

Are you sure about Hunstanton having a short-form name pronounced HUN-STON?

Quite sure - I was born there, however I've not been back for years and my brother does now use the HUN-STAN-TON format which my mother and I have given up correcting.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Quite sure - I was born there, however I've not been back for years and my brother does now use the HUN-STAN-TON format which my mother and I have given up correcting.

I never really doubted you although my wife with her many childhood excursions accompanying her parents, insist it was always to HUN-STAN-TON, and were never told or heard different. She -like you brother it seems- will continue to refer to as it is spelled.

 

[Bob Spiers]

I think I may have posted this before -a year or two back, but likely forgotten by most, but apposite to this thread. In my childhood Birmingham days my mate and I would often cycle to a place known as the "Ackerdocks". We got there along a canal tow patch which backed onto our garden. I had no idea why it was so named, it just was. It was also a favourite stroll destination on a Sunday afternoon for my parents, myself and two sisters, only this time it was to a pub situated at the Ackerdocks. It had nice sit out areas (weather permitting but we would only take the stroll in rain free days) and we would be presented with a bottle of pop and a packet of crisps, whilst Dad had his pint and Mom usually a glass of stout.

Now let us examine the reason why it was called Ackerdocks. It was something I worked out for myself and long after childhood, in fact on paying a visit back to Birmingham and taking my wife to see my childhood haunts. I said I would see if I could find my way by road to the Ackerdocks (and agreeing it was a strange name) . Just before the canal, the road that crossed it was impeded by a drop down barrier, and the road had disappeared at right angles to allow a canal boat about to proceed along the canal. When the boat was through the road pivoted back into place and the barrier lifted. The penny dropped: we had encountered an ACQUEDUCT nothing more or less and in good old Brummie speak it had over time been corrupted to ACKERDOCK .

On a later visit things had been modernised and there was a set of traffic lights and the road was now moved by heavy lifting machinery and returned to place after canal traffic had moved on. It was still of course an Aqueduct. The Pub is still there and turned into something of a theme pub, and popular with tourists. We stopped off ourselves and I eventually found an elderly local who smiled when I mentioned the old name and he confided many still called it the Ackerdocks. But it just shows how place names are corrupted over time and the local vernacular takes over.

 

[PhilGee]

Bob, I'm confused - your description seems to be of a canal with swing bridge. For aqueduct, I tend to think "Pontcysyllte" .

For the more "unusual", there's the Anderton Boat Lift

 

[Bob Spiers]

Bob, I'm confused - your description seems to be of a canal with swing bridge. For aqueduct, I tend to think "Pontcysyllte" .

In the cold light of day and wearing my pedantic hat you are probably right -especially referring to an Aqueduct like Pontcysyllte and I know of others. But that is academic when it comes to explaining how Brummie 'Ackerdocks' (always plural for some reason) came about.

After my own deduction of how I thought it originated and as a long time subscriber to the Birmingham History Forum, I searched its archives (a cornucopia of miscellany posted by Brummie seniors, most still resident, but including ex pats both in the country and abroad) and soon struck gold. In fact to my surprise I found there was more than one Ackerdocks but eventually alighted on messages relating to the one I knew about.

Everyone agreed the name 'Ackerdocks' had been passed down the line from childhood and picked up from parents and grandparents. The consensus was it had to be a Brummie corruption of Aqueduct. It was the only one that made sense, and whilst there were a few dissenters none could come up with a more satisfactory answer; and no more can I.

Edit: Had chance to speak with my cousin who recalls of course the 'Ackerdocks' but agrees it was in fact a drawbridge and the pub the Drawbridge Inn and the road (guess) Drawbridge Road. So in truth not an aqueduct but obviously way back someone decided it was.

 

[Bob Spiers]

What a delight my cousin has provided a photo of the drawbridge found online and from the looks pre-dating even my own memories of what it looked like as a child, and certainly the pub. I don't even remember the heavy lift timbers, I thought the bridge swung, but could just be wrong and it certainly seems not to qualify as an Aqueduct. But I still think it became known as a generic Aqueduct and by a process of 'Chinese whispers' morphed into Ackerdock(s).