Riley/Ryley in Staffordshire

[GrahamC]

I have a query from the 1861 census of Longton, Staffordshire. The attached image shows the household in question. The head of household is shown as John Ryley aged 30, his wife Bridget aged 32, their 7 kids and and a 17 yo boarder also called John Ryley.

I know from extensive research over many years that the name of the head of household is actually Martin Ryley/Riley and that Bridget was also known as Elizabeth. I strongly suspect that the error was made by the enumerator.

My conundrum relates to the 17 yo boarder who's surname is also Ryley. I have tried to find him in previous and subsequent censuses and in BDM records without success. There are numerous people of the correct name but narrowing it down to the correct person is difficult if not impossible.

Can anyone help?

 

[Pauline]

I think I might hazard a guess at him being the John Ryley aged 25 in Pemberton in the 1871 census. Although his age is a couple of years out, the other details are right and his wife was born in Longton.

 

[GrahamC]

Thanks Pauline. That looks very likely. I'll try tracing him back and see if I can make a connection.

 

[SuzanneD]

If you are suspicious that other details are wrong, the other possibility is that the lodger's surname may not actually be Ryley - the enumerator may just have kept going when writing in the surnames. Having said that, it is not uncommon for quite close relatives to appear as boarders.

 

[GrahamC]

I have now followed John and Eliza(beth) Riley/Ryley though the censuses from 1871 to 1911. There is quite a clear trail there but no clues as to relations, which is what I was looking for. There is a marriage for John Riley and Elizabeth Longhurst in Penkridge Reg. District in 1865. I feel this is probably them but it doesn't give birth places so I can't be sure.

 

[Pauline]

Thanks Pauline. That looks very likely. I'll try tracing him back and see if I can make a connection.

I'm finding him a bit elusive but I think the same family (if it's the right one) are in Huyton with Roby in 1881 - RG11 3722 Fo: 71, surname spelt Riley. Then in Tyldesley with Shakerley in 1891 (RG12 3091 Fo: 123) and Leigh in 1911, where it says they've been married 45 years.

 

[GrahamC]

I'm finding him a bit elusive but I think the same family (if it's the right one) are in Huyton with Roby in 1881 - RG11 3722 Fo: 71, surname spelt Riley. Then in Tyldesley with Shakerley in 1891 (RG12 3091 Fo: 123) and Leigh in 1911, where it says they've been married 45 years.

I would agree with that Pauline. Also, in 1861 an Elizabeth Longhurst is a cook and domestic with a family in Walsall. However her birthplace is Hill Ridware, not Longton and she was born in 1840, not '46 as later censuses indicate. Then in '51 she is a schoolmaster's daughter in Hill Ridware.

Probably the same person again but it seems strange to me that a schoolmaster's daughter would go into service and then marry a coal miner. Anyway the main aim of this exercise is to determine whether or not John Ryley is related to the family he boarded with in 1861. I don't think it is going to happen.

 

[Pauline]

I think my post yesterday was somewhat superfluous but I hadn't seen yours about the later censuses when I posted, and I'm guessing, that like mine later, it was awaiting moderation.

However, regarding John Ryley's origins - do you have a subscription at Findmypast? If the marriage to Elizabeth Longhurst is the correct one (and presumably a birth certificate for one of their children would confirm her maiden name) then you will find more information at FMP as they have a transcript of that marriage, and they also have some Cheshire Roman Catholic registers which include a possible baptism for John.

Is it possible that John was Roman Catholic?

 

[Liberty]

Probably the same person again but it seems strange to me that a schoolmaster's daughter would go into service and then marry a coal miner..

looks a bit DH Lawrence to me....

 

[Pauline]

Looking further, I think the marriage to Elizabeth Longhurst is unlikely to be the right one. It would appear you have found the right Elizabeth Longhurst in 1851 and her age and birthplace both seem wrong.

I've also found this Riley/Longhurst couple in 1871 in Walsall and John's occupation seems wrong - as it does at the marriage - and his birthplace is at odds with the John you have in the 1861 census.

The Roman Catholic baptism for John could still be the right one, though.

 

[GrahamC]

Thanks Pauline. Just leave me with it for the time being. I have other things to think about.
BTW, my Riley family was RC.

 

[GrahamC]

Well I have given in to temptation and ordered the birth certificate for their daughter Theresa Josephine. I was hoping to avoid any expenditure but I've run out of alternatives. Will keep you posted.