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jorghes

jorghes

LostCousins Superstar
So I'm hoping someone might be able to help me out before I go purchasing documents from the GRO.

I am looking for either the baptism record or marriage records of William Tomlinson to attempt to continue a journey to moving a couple of bricks in a massive brick wall in my family - basically, I want to know who his parents were.

William Tomlinson was born on 18 Jul 1888, according to his US cemetery records, in Highfield, Lancashire. (His UK British Army records also give a birthdate of 1888 and a birthplace of Lancashire)

According to his British Army records, he married Florence Eliza Tickle on 12 Sep 1912 in Pemberton, Lancashire. There is a matching GRO record for 1912 Jul Quarter (8c 50) in Wigan, but I haven't found any other records in England at this point that I can confirm are William.

He, his wife and daughters moved to Rhode Island in the US, and I am able to trace them all easily.

So I have been looking for a marriage document, or a baptism document so that I can follow William back another generation.

Wigan records are held on Ancestry, so I checked them, no Tomlinsons marrying a Tickle. I even went into the record set and looked at the records for Pemberton and scrolled to the page that held the marriages for Sep 1912, but there were no marriages recorded on the 12th (but quite a few on the 14th).

I also checked the Lancashire parish registers on FMP, but no sign of any records from Pemberton, or any other records of Tomlinson and Tickle weddings.

Stimied, I went looking for a possible baptismal record for William - but I can't find a corresponding record for a William Tomlinson for 1888.

I presume that the lack of a marriage register entry either means the details are incorrect or that they married in a Register office instead of the Parish church. I'm not sure what to make of the missing baptismal record for William, other that perhaps I haven't figured out the right wildcard to find any mispelt names.

Any ideas? I think that I will probably be left to order the marriage record from the GRO and do it that way, but
 
Lancashire have Florence Eliza Tickle and William Tomlinson; St Matthew, Highfield Ref: C18/1/91. William Tomlinson birth at Pemberton PEM/56/406 in 1888, mother Blackham.

Phil
 
Marriage locator had no results, but the Lancashire BMD indexes gave the place of marriage as St Matthew's Highfield.

The Ancestry records do not include St Matthew's Highfield, and neither do the FMP records.

Looks like the only way is to order the certificate.
 
PhilGee said:
Lancashire have Florence Eliza Tickle and William Tomlinson; St Matthew, Highfield Ref: C18/1/91. William Tomlinson birth at Pemberton PEM/56/406 in 1888, mother Blackham.

Phil
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil - we'll see if this allows me to find out any more information.
 
jorghes said:
Looks like the only way is to order the certificate.
Click to expand...
Why? You have his mother's maiden name from the birth indexes, with this information you can find his parents' marriage.

Perhaps being unable to find William on the 1891 Census has made this seem more difficult than it needs to be?
 
From the Lancs births, look for Titus Tomlinson b. 1887 on the 1901 census - in Pemberton, Wigan. Mary is John's second wife; Jane died 1898.

John Tomlinson married Jane Blackham in Dudley - 6c 43 1884Q2

Phil
 
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Cheers guys - I have been searching and I am happy because John Tomlinson was born in Sedgley, Staffordshire; in the area where my brick wall is (and a large number of maternal ancestors). Will leave off ordering the marriage cert since I found the information - I used a search of the BMDs for Tomlinson/Blackham children and was able to match William to his siblings and then his parents.

Looks like John was possibly illegitimate himself, his mother seems to be Elizabeth Tomlinson - since in the 1861 census, at 7 months old he seems a little young to be the man of the house's son (also John), even though he was only 41 (and his wife Deborah 39) - particularly since Elizabeth is 19. Checked the GRO, and he's registered as Tomlinson without a mother's maiden name listed.

Though records also suggest that John frequently may have used the surname Hickman. A few Ancestry trees suggest that John's father may have been Titus Hickman. Will keep checking.

EDIT:
Solved the problem of not being able to find baptisms - while John Tomlinson registered his children under "Tomlinson" quite a few were baptised as "Hickman". Then they all seemingly reverted back to Tomlinson!
 
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jorghes said:
EDIT:
Solved the problem of not being able to find baptisms - while John Tomlinson registered his children under "Tomlinson" quite a few were baptised as "Hickman". Then they all seemingly reverted back to Tomlinson!
Click to expand...
Ah - that explains why they're recorded as Hickman in 1891.
 
pjd said:
You might find Lancashire Online Parish Clerk Project useful too http://www.lan-opc.org.uk - Pemberton definitely recorded although it might not cover the years you need
Click to expand...

Thanks!


For those still following the saga, the plot has thickened.

Elizabeth Tomlinson (who then married Titus Hickman) was not the daughter of John and Deborah Tomlinson, she's listed on the census entry as their niece!
Keeping an eye out for some possible parents for Elizabeth...

EDIT: Looking increasingly like Elizabeth herself could have been illegitimate. Only one record in the GRO for 1841/1842 for Elizabeth Tomlinson in register area of Dudley, and they have no maiden name recorded.
 
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jorghes said:
Looking increasingly like Elizabeth herself could have been illegitimate. Only one record in the GRO for 1841/1842 for Elizabeth Tomlinson in register area of Dudley, and they have no maiden name recorded.
Click to expand...
Although the modern birth indexes are generally more informative, in a case like this always check the quarterly indexes at FreeBMD in case the father's name was recorded in the register, as sometimes happened during this period.
 
peter said:
Although the modern birth indexes are generally more informative, in a case like this always check the quarterly indexes at FreeBMD in case the father's name was recorded in the register, as sometimes happened during this period.
Click to expand...

Searching FreeBMD doesn't give any other entries other than the original one of Elizabeth Tomlinson. So she hasn't been registered more than once, mores the pity.
 
jorghes said:
Searching FreeBMD doesn't give any other entries other than the original one of Elizabeth Tomlinson. So she hasn't been registered more than once, mores the pity.
Click to expand...
The birth won't have been registered more than once, but it might have been indexed more than once. Take a look at the index entries for that page of the register.
 
peter said:
The birth won't have been registered more than once, but it might have been indexed more than once. Take a look at the index entries for that page of the register.
Click to expand...

There is a second Elizabeth on the same page, this time Elizabeth Blackham. Unfortunately on the GRO Elizabeth Blackham has a mother's maiden name of Williams.

Doesn't look so promising.
 
jorghes said:
There is a second Elizabeth on the same page, this time Elizabeth Blackham. Unfortunately on the GRO Elizabeth Blackham has a mother's maiden name of Williams.
Click to expand...
That's also what I found. But now many people reading this discussion have learned a new technique - and that's what the forum is all about.
 
peter said:
That's also what I found. But now many people reading this discussion have learned a new technique - and that's what the forum is all about.
Click to expand...

I have no problems with that - and it makes sure that I've check all avenues that I may have missed!

While I can't currently find Elizabeth's father, I have located (through her uncle) her mother's family (and which of her uncle's siblings is most likely her parent), so that's still a step in the right direction.
 
peter said:
The birth won't have been registered more than once, but it might have been indexed more than once. Take a look at the index entries for that page of the register.
Click to expand...
I was already aware of this possibility but decided to check it out with someone born in 1913. The person concerned was born illegitimate but both parents registered the birth, and I knew it appeared in the old GRO indexes under both surnames, with the mother's maiden name shown in both indexed entries. There wasn't anything cross-referencing the two entries.

I have now looked at this in the new GRO indexes and discovered the birth is listed there only under the father's surname, with a dash instead of a mother's maiden name. This is very misleading, as it implies an illegitimacy where the father was not recorded, and has also removed any reference to the mother's maiden surname.

Has anyone else come across similar examples.
 
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