Place names in FamilySearch and Ancestry Trees

[Pauline]

I was looking at some trees on FamilySearch and was a bit surprised to see that English place names there include 'United Kingdom' - for example, Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England, United Kingdom.

Since people from across the world use these trees, clearly the country needs to be defined, but why the addition of 'United Kingdom'? The FamilySearch dropdown of places differentiates between place names before and after 1801, but many users seem to choose the version including 'United Kingdom' regardless of the date and blithely apply it to events in the 18th century and earlier.

Also, although it may be technically correct that places in England have been in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland* since 1801 (*Northern Ireland since 1922), I would question how necessary or appropriate it is to include 'United Kingdom' in defining them.

I personally very much dislike the practice, and would define myself as living either in England or in the UK, but never in England, United Kingdom.

What do others think?

 

[Helen7]

I agree with you, Pauline. And it's not just FamilySearch. Ancestry often adds 'United Kingdom' into the search box when I have just specified a town in England in my search.

 

[Tim]

Agreed, United Kingdom is not a country and should not be included.

 

[peter]

If you're using Ancestry you have to choose a location from the dropdown, otherwise it won't work. At FamilySearch there is no dropdown and it doesn't matter.

 

[Helen7]

If you're using Ancestry you have to choose a location from the dropdown, otherwise it won't work. At FamilySearch there is no dropdown and it doesn't matter.

I agree you have to select from the dropdown at Ancestry, but having selected 'Bolton, Lancashire, England' from the dropdown, when I go back to look at the search fields, why has it changed the location to ''Bolton, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom' without me having changed anything? I find it does that all the time.

 

[At home in NZ]

I agree you have to select from the dropdown at Ancestry, but having selected 'Bolton, Lancashire, England' from the dropdown, when I go back to look at the search fields, why has it changed the location to ''Bolton, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom' without me having changed anything? I find it does that all the time.

That has been happening for some while, it aggravates me. It will also sometimes do it when adding a record to your tree and it prefills the fields, I never turn the editing off because I want to enter the address/location in my own consistent manner.

 

[peter]

I agree you have to select from the dropdown at Ancestry, but having selected 'Bolton, Lancashire, England' from the dropdown, when I go back to look at the search fields, why has it changed the location to ''Bolton, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom' without me having changed anything? I find it does that all the time.

There is no perfect solution because boundaries changed, names changes, and new countries like Canada, Australia, and the USA came into being.

I have an ancestor who is said to have been born in Prussia, but which Prussia? The boundaries of Prussia changed dramatically during his lifetime.

 

[Pauline]

I agree with you, Pauline. And it's not just FamilySearch. Ancestry often adds 'United Kingdom' into the search box when I have just specified a town in England in my search.

As far as I know, Ancestry does not add 'United Kingdom' into your tree, but the bug which adds it to place names when searching has, as AHNZ mentions, been around for quite a while. At one time you had to remove it in order to repeat the search, but that doesn't seem to be the case now.

 

[Pauline]

If you're using Ancestry you have to choose a location from the dropdown, otherwise it won't work. At FamilySearch there is no dropdown and it doesn't matter.

Yes and no. FamilySearch has no dropdown for searching records, but it does have one for the family trees. The Ancestry dropdown is used for searching and trees, but you don't actually have to use it for either. In some data sets adding the place in the location field doesn't work anyway*, so I almost invariably use the Keyword field for the place. Also, Ancestry still does not recognise 3 letter place names, so for somewhere like Cam or Box, the Keyword field is the only option.

* As an example, if I select the Gloucestershire PRs pre-1813 and enter Tetbury into the Any Event Location field, and nothing in all the other fields, I get just 21 results, which clearly isn't right.

 

[Pauline]

Thank you for all the comments. I'd still be interested to have more opinions on whether adding 'United Kingdom' to English* place names is correct, advisable, desirable and so on.

* I have been talking about English place names because that's where I came across the issue in FamilySearch trees, but the same applies to places in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

 

[peter]

The Ancestry dropdown is used for searching and trees, but you don't actually have to use it for either.

When did that change?

 

[Pauline]

When did that change?

I'm not sure if it ever did, and for as long as I remember you haven't had to use the dropdown either when searching or in your tree.

If you don't use the dropdown when entering locations in your tree, Ancestry may make wildly wrong guesses at the place when showing it in a list of results, but if the place concerned isn't in the dropdown you don't have much choice.

 

[peter]

When did that change?

I'm not sure if it ever did

Please see this article from 2013.

 

[Pauline]

Please see this article from 2013.

I remember the 'old search', of course, but I was assuming we were referring to the current search facility here.

 

[peter]

I remember the 'old search', of course, but I was assuming we were referring to the current search facility here.

We are, and the article is about the new search as well as the old search.

 

[Pauline]

As explained above, there are situations when using the dropdown for searching simply doesn’t work, and fortunately you don’t need to. I’ve also entered a few locations in my tree without using the dropdown because the place in question isn’t in the dropdown list.

Admittedly I very rarely, if ever, do searches in Ireland.

 

[peter]

As explained above, there are situations when using the dropdown for searching simply doesn’t work, and fortunately you don’t need to. I’ve also entered a few locations in my tree without using the dropdown because the place in question isn’t in the dropdown list.

Admittedly I very rarely, if ever, do searches in Ireland.

The example in the newsletter was a search in the England 1901 Census for someone born in Ireland - not quite the same thing.

I've now repeated the search described in the newsletter article: this produced 38 results whether I typed in Ireland or chose it from the dropdown - this is reassuring since the results from 2013 were very different. Clearly they have updated the search since then.

 

[Pauline]

Am I cracking up or has the subject line of this discussion been changed? I don’t remember adding ‘and Ancestry’ and if I did, I didn’t intend to! My original post was only about FamilySearch trees.

 

[Bryman]

Am I cracking up or has the subject line of this discussion been changed? I don’t remember adding ‘and Ancestry’ and if I did, I didn’t intend to! My original post was only about FamilySearch trees.

Perhaps that was added by a moderator to avoid the need to split off posts into a new discussion.

 

[At home in NZ]

Thank you for all the comments. I'd still be interested to have more opinions on whether adding 'United Kingdom' to English* place names is correct, advisable, desirable and so on.

* I have been talking about English place names because that's where I came across the issue in FamilySearch trees, but the same applies to places in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

I don't search trees in FamilySearch because I didn't know you can.
However, to answer your question about 'United Kingdom'.
When I left England, email hadn't been thought of so I used to write to my family and friends. I always addressed the letters with the last word of the address as England. and still do when write to people who don't have a computer and when I send birthday cards et al.

Veering off the subject of FamilySearch and onto Ancestry, I found an example (jpg attached) in my Hints of London, United Kingdom in one record and London, England in another. It's obviously how the transcribers differ and I would have thought training would take care of such inconsistencies.

Experimenting with Search All Records in Ancestry, a fictional William Smith born Ipswich, Suffolk. The drop down gives me Ipswich, Suffolk, England and I hit Search and get a lot of results.
I click on the Edit and the Location has changed to Ipswich, Suffolk, England, United Kingdom.
This has been happening for some months.

Change the focus to Ireland for a fictitious Thomas O'Reilly born County Mayo, Ireland, the drop down is Mayo, Ireland. Click on Edit and it hasn't changed. But if I change the birth place to Belfast the dropdown is Belfast, Northern Ireland and when I Edit it has changed to Belfast, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom.
My opinion, it's technically correct but I wouldn't use it. And, why didn't Mayo, Ireland change to Mayo, Republic of Ireland??