Our developing language

[Carla]

I have just read an article which made me think about how much our language has changed over the years. Obviously if you have read Chaucer, or Shakespeare it is easy to see that people spoke and wrote differently to how we do now, but even over the last few years I think the invention of mobile phones, in particular, has changed the way we write? I am sure I am not the only parent who has been baffled by words that their children use? Mind you my eldest son does tell me off for my absolutely horrendous, as he puts it, text spelling when sending him a message. Honestly, I cannot be the only one to use lol, or brb?

Oxforddictionaries.com has added some new words in it's quarterly update, many of which I didn't even recognise. I am obviously rather out of date, and not very 'hip and trendy' as the new additions apparently show the current trends in our language. I feel so old.....YOLO

 

[Bob Spiers]

Mind you my eldest son does tell me off for my absolutely horrendous, as he puts it, text spelling when sending him a message. Honestly, I cannot be the only one to use lol, or brb? ..........YOLO

Oh dear I fear there is little hope for you Carla, your eldest son is absolutely right. Mind you there are a few active acronym users in the Forum (they know who they are); and now you.

I do my best never to use them if I can possibly help it (one can hardly refer to (say) USA, RAF, UN etc without the use of their acronym) but SWMBO I ask you! No thanks. I wonder if there is a society that is against the use of acronyms? Sadly if there is it would by now be reduced to an acronym.

 

[Margery]

I thought than an acronym was a pronouncable word formed from the initial letters of other words. SWMBO?

 

[Bob Spiers]

I thought than an acronym was a pronouncable word formed from the initial letters of other words. SWMBO?

Well this is the last theme on which I would claim to be expert, but surely an acronym is merely the use of initial letters ie Royal Society of Arts (RSA) as an abbreviation of the full words. They do not have to be themselves pronounceable as a word, else in time someone would find an acronym for them!

For example the dreadful SWMBO ('she who must be obeyed' ) might end up as SMO

I know America, every armed force in the world, institutions and public bodies could not exist without acronyms. I just do not see why we mere mortals have to join them. But then I am merely a GOS (the first two being 'grumpy old') (But as you see I rather like smiley faces).

 

[Marguerite]

It is, Margery

 

[Tim]

From Wiki

An acronym is an abbreviation formed from the initial components in a phrase or a word. These components may be individual letters (as in laser) or parts of words (as in Benelux and Ameslan).

 

[Bob Spiers]

I love it when definitions of anything are challenged because all to often no hard and fast rule applies. I chose to check for an absolute definition of acronym via Wikipedia and many other online sources and this was the best example I discovered . (It is however similarly explained from many sources).

"According to the strictest definition of an acronym, only abbreviations that are pronounced as words qualify. So by these standards, for example, COBOL is an acronym because it's pronounced as a word but WHO (World Health Organization) is not an acronym because the letters in the abbreviation are pronounced individually. However, opinions differ on what constitutes an acronym. Merriam-Webster (Online Dictionary & Thesaurus) for example, says that an acronym is just "a word formed from the initials letters of a multi-word name."

Pronounceable or otherwise initial letters can constitute an Acronym even if purists may refer to non-pronounceable ones as 'Initialisms'. My brain began to hurt when I discovered that (so called) 'true' acronyms are further divided into types (a bit like plants with Genus & Species) so there are 'anacronyms', 'recursive acronyms', 'backronyms' and 'apronyms'. At this point I gave up.

So I am sure we will each clink to our own definition and I will leave it there. TTFN

 

[Margery]

It's Monday morning here and I am about to don my apronym to do some housework. Hope that my backronym doesn't ache too much.

 

[Bob Spiers]

It's Monday morning here and I am about to don my apronym to do some housework. Hope that my backronym doesn't ache too much.

Well done Margery, that made be LAUGH (Long and uncontrollable guffaw humour), Sorry.

Incidentally I was waiting for someone to pick up a Spiersism

..So I am sure we will each clink to our own definition ...

'clink' should have been 'cling' so no brownie point there.

 

[Britjan]

Incidentally I was waiting for someone to pick up a Spiersism 'clink' should have been 'cling' so no brownie point there.

A number of months ago I coined the term "malabob-ism" is that the same as a 'spiersism" Bob?

 

[Bob Spiers]

A number of months ago I coined the term "malabob-ism" is that the same as a 'spiersism" Bob?

Yes it is Britjan and your 'malabobism' (with or without the hyphen) was funnier and apposite. However others seem to have fallen back on 'spiersism' (with at least one other spelling variation) so will wait and see which sticks. (Now must just do a quick edit of this short posting to check no typos have crept in)

 

[Bob Spiers]

I love the many regional dialects of our country and have often found myself on the receiving end of trying to fathom out what is being said either to me, or follow the conversations of others. Two good examples of what I mean can be illustrated in joke format (with absolutely no offence intended to the regions in question).

The first is that of the Black Country and second rural Yorkshire.

Aynock & Aylie meet on the street. Aylie: “Weers yow gooin Aynock”? Aynock: “I baint gooin n’wer, I’m cumin back”

Yorkshire man (YM) taking his cat to the Vet. YM: “Ayup lad, I need to talk to thee about me cat” Vet: “Is it a tom?” YM: “Nay, I’ve browt it with us”

When reading ‘interpreted’ dialect at least you have time to ‘fathom-out’ (regional dialect in the raw) what is being said, but when hearing true regional vernacular for the first time it is like being addressed in a foreign tongue.

I well recall meeting the 87 year old brother of my first father-in-law and after introduction was left alone with him. He lived right on the North Bucks/South Northamptonshire border. I could not for the life of me understand what he was saying and I had to ask my wife to come in and interpret. (Luckily I could not interpret what he had to say about that).

A few years later –after living in the region for some time - and just before he passed away, I recall having a quite fascinating chat with him on the subject of rural and the working life in the early 20th century. It just takes time and then the dialect is not nearly so strange.

 

[emjay]

Enjoyed t'vet an' cat wun Bob lad !

 

[Heather]

I was born, brought up and lived in Lancashire for 33 years until coming to Australia in 1977. I have some books with poems in the Lancashire dialect in them and it takes me quite some time to work out what is being said. I find it better to read them out loud and then usually the penny drops.

 

[emjay]

Yes Heather, I have difficulty reading regional dialect as in for example, "The Manchester Man" by Mrs. Linneaus Banks (Isabella Varley). Maybe it's the way she has written the local dialogue passages, but I tend to read in a West Country accent! ( The Manchester Man is a wonderful historic novel, particularly for anyone with Manchester connections; it
includes an account of the "Peterloo Massacre")

 

[Bob Spiers]

I have always been fascinated with the 'Selkirk Grace' (also known as Burn's Grace at Kirkcudbright). The text is invariably printed in English, but recited of course in Scots. It is perfectly clear even with its unusual (to the English eye) original Scottish spelling - and a beautiful grace prayer repeated worldwide on Burns night to usher in the meal.

"Some hae meat and canna eat,
And some wad eat that want it,
But we hae meat and we can eat,
And sae the Lord be thankit"

 

[Bob Spiers]

Enjoyed t'vet an' cat wun Bob lad !

Glad to hear emjay, and I chose it as better representative of Yorkshire dialect than the joke told about the Yorkshireman who wanted a Jeweller to make a gold statue of his dog.
Jeweller; "Do you want it 18 carat"? Yorkshireman. "No I want it chewin' a bone yer daft begger!"

 

[Bob Spiers]

Thinking about the different dialects reminds me whilst in my 20's serving in the RAF and of an occasion of being in the company of : 1. Geordie man; 2. Yorkshire girl; 3. Me (Brummie) and 4/5. A husband and wife, he from Wiltshire and she an Afrikaans lady. You had to be there to hear (never mind understand) the mix of regional accent and heavy accented English (with a mixture of Afrikaans thrown in).

There was the Geordie saying 'why aye bonnie lad/lassie' at regular intervals and telling about soon to be 'ganning yarn' (going home) on leave. The Yorkshire girl explaining how to 'fettle' (make) a true Yorkshire pudding like her Mam used to make. I had to explain what I meant by saying I had 'copped' (been given) an extra duty and all of us without exception -except for her husband - finding it almost impossible to understand anything the Afrikaans lady said as she lapsed in and out of her native language. (Although to be fair it worked in reverse as she constantly asked her husband to translate what we were saying). He faired best as he had only the barest regional Wiltshire dialect and - after all - could converse in Afrikaans.

Thanks goodness my mate Brian -a Glaswegian Scot from the Gorbals - was on leave otherwise I dread to think how we would have faired as I rarely understood him at the best of times.

 

[Bryman]

Thanks goodness my mate Brian -a Glaswegian Scot from the Gorbals - was on leave otherwise I dread to think how we would have faired as I rarely understood him at the best of times.

I fully understand your difficulty and have had many an awkward conversation where I needed to ask for multiple repetitions of 'simple' phrases, especially from Glaswegians.

At one time I was working in the South of France with someone from the North East of England. He returned to England to attend a family funeral and when he came back to France he gave me a language record titled "Larn yersel Geordie". Very amusing but didn't really help very much. Perhaps you can't teach old dogs . . .

 

[Bob Spiers]

My Glaswegian friend Brian, also a serving airman, was a fine trumpeter and we both played in a camp dance band, I was on keyboard and not nearly as gifted. He was band leader and even if he wanted to pick me up on something, I would have to ask him to repeat it slowly a word at a time. As we were also mates I used to tell him to belt up and play as I would understand that better. To which he would smile, utter a totally incomprehensible oath in broad Scots, and play. Great memories never the less.