Name change

[SLJ]

Where do I look for a legal name change? couldn't find in marriage records for UK.

 

[Pauline]

Just to clarify, do you mean you’ve been looking for a marriage, but can’t find it so are wondering if there was a name change, or is this the marriage of someone you know changed their name?

Lots of people changed their name without there being any record of it, since in England you can legitimately call yourself whatever you want, so long as it isn’t for fraudulent purposes.

 

[SLJ]

I don't know whether its a marriage or change of name. Joyce Valerie Klopke married 1950 and became Rybinska. Later on I find her using name Rybinska-Harvey in a phone book . Death record is recorded under Harvey in 2006
1939 census as young girl so Klopke, with notes of name change one in 1950 Rybinska and one 30th Aug ??? could be 197? to Harvey. I have not been able to locate a marriage.

 

[Pauline]

The first challenge was to find the 1939 entry! But having found it, I can see that the line redacting the entry above has obscured the date of the marriage - which may be more likely than a name change - but like you, I haven't been able to find a marriage to a Harvey.

Two suggestions - firstly, contact Findmypast and ask them what the date they've obscured actually is, and secondly, get a copy of her death certificate as that should give her husband's (or late husband's) name and occupation. From either of those you may be able to trace the Harvey marriage, or at least be able to tell if there was one.

 

[Tim]

I can see that the line redacting the entry above has obscured the date of the marriage

Hi Pauline, in my experience I've found that this date is not the actual date of the wedding but the date that the register was updated. The actual wedding could be the wedding or it could be years before.

Was the Ancestry entry in the same condition?

 

[Pauline]

Hi Pauline, in my experience I've found that this date is not the actual date of the wedding but the date that the register was updated. The actual wedding could be the wedding or it could be years before.

I agree, though I've usually found the register to have been updated fairly promptly. But whatever the date, any marriage was being elusive!

Was the Ancestry entry in the same condition?

Yes. I agree with SLJ that the date looks like 30.8, and the year could begin with a 7 but as you can really only see the stem, I guess it might be a 9.

(In case anyone else is looking for these entries, at FMP her surname has been transcribed as Harvey, and at Ancestry as Knapp, and the dob is 27 Nov 1924.)

 

[SLJ]

After reading the below info would it be right in thinking the name change cannot be after 1991?
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/.../1939-register/
since 1948 the Register had also been used by the National Health Service, who continued updating the records until 1991, when paper-based record keeping was discontinued. The records remained with the NHS up until 1991 – therefore most changes of name between 1939 and 1991 are listed in the records

 

[Sue_3]

After reading the below info would it be right in thinking the name change cannot be after 1991?
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/.../1939-register/
since 1948 the Register had also been used by the National Health Service, who continued updating the records until 1991, when paper-based record keeping was discontinued. The records remained with the NHS up until 1991 – therefore most changes of name between 1939 and 1991 are listed in the records

I think that's right.

I have an example of someone who changed her name to that of her partner's surname and then married him later, so in the marriage record both surnames are the same. Could that have happened in this case?

Another possibility is that the marriage took place somewhere other than in England and Wales. Have you already checked the index on Scotland's People?

 

[Stuart]

I think it's worth going back to the original question: if you can't find a marriage where do you look for other kinds of name change? Not just for this case, but for anyone who lands here looking for answers to their own problem.

There is a guide on the subject from the National Archives: "How to look for records of... Changes of name." In general if there's one of those it's the best place to go, and that's true here. It includes the following about entries in the 1939 register:

The 1939 Register was updated until 1991, and the updates include many changes of name. These are mostly when women changed their surnames on marriage, but name changes for other reasons are also included. A change of name accompanied by the annotation ‘NR230’ denotes a change of name for a reason other than marriage.

(So yes, anything leading to an entry must be 1991 or before.) We already know that name changes by marriage have the code CR283, as in this case. But what about that "EX"? Does anyone know what that means?

The main method provided now for name changes is the deed poll, and its history is covered in the guide. In its current form it is surprisingly recent, with a series of regulations from 1949, revised in 1969, 1974, 1983, and now by "The Enrolment of Deeds (Change of Name) Regulations 1994". But then most people only needed a name recognised by the people around them, and adoption and even most "pretend marriages" worked without any formalities up to about 100 years ago. Only those who needed to convince lawyers or officials that they were someone in particular would need a signed document, with witnesses to vouch for them.

You would usually need to publish a name change for it to work. That was done, with a deed poll or without, almost always by a notice in the London (or other) Gazette. Now it's in the regulations as part of the process. So the answer to the question of where to look for a record (if not the 1939 register itself) is "in the Gazette".

 

[Pauline]

We already know that name changes by marriage have the code CR283, as in this case. But what about that "EX"?

I wondered if the EX referred to the place, but not all name changes by marriage have the code CR283, so I’m not quite sure what you mean by this. A marriage has been found for the earlier name change but the code there is AMA M (with a superscript c, I think).

 

[Stuart]

I wondered if the EX referred to the place, but not all name changes by marriage have the code CR283, so I’m not quite sure what you mean by this. A marriage has been found for the earlier name change but the code there is AMA M (with a superscript c, I think).

I was relying on the TNA guide to be reliable about the NR230 code, plus the consensus that CR283 is often found with changes due to marriage.

But while there is a consensus about NR230 and CR283 being official forms, there is a maddening lack of information about the evidence for these explanations. I find that bizarre - there must be hundreds of people alive who worked on these updates up to 1991! It's not as if the system they used is in any way confidential. Plus thew whole thing is public as images, so there should be more than enough examples of most of these codes where the meaning can be established from other sources. It just needs someone to collect the evidence ...

So, to be more careful, if CR283 and NR230 show the information came off those forms, that tells us nothing about the cases where neither mark is shown. It might have been left off, or the form might have turned up after the change had been made. The two forms most likely came from different places, so the same event could be reported via either.

AMA is the ED code for London, of course, and I think 'M' is likely to be for marriage (and perhaps for correction of status to "married"). What I see is "IC" above it - no doubt for Identity Card, perhaps meaning one had been issued (but by a different office).

If these registers were initially held locally, and sent to the NHS after 1952, then I wonder whether these standard codes and processes even existed at that stage. And thinking about corrections, there must have been a lot of those when cards were issued. The instructions say the cards were made out from the householders' schedules, but whether before or after the register, and whether always on the spot (as is implied) or at the office to be sent out, it doesn't say. But whatever the process, errors will have been reported from the start and with another flood when rationing started. Those corrections must have been entered locally, if accepted and made - what does that look like?

 

[Pauline]

What I see is "IC" above it

Yes, I think that may be right - I was unsure if it was ic or an apostrophe c.

 

[peter]

If these registers were initially held locally, and sent to the NHS after 1952

The registers were held by the GRO, and though they were technically handed over to the NHS c2007 they continued to be stored at Southport (and may still be there).

The NHS Central Register was computerised in stages but I've never seen a date later than the 1980s.

I've usually found the register to have been updated fairly promptly.

It would have depended on when the individual asked for their medical card to be updated - if they had no need to visit the doctor there could have been a considerable delay (though, of course, in the late 60s and 70s many women would have been 'on the pill'). Changes of doctor on moving are likely to have been recorded promptly, but that information is on the part of the right-hand page that we can't see.

 

[peter]

You would usually need to publish a name change for it to work. That was done, with a deed poll or without, almost always by a notice in the London (or other) Gazette. Now it's in the regulations as part of the process. So the answer to the question of where to look for a record (if not the 1939 register itself) is "in the Gazette".

It was only necessary to publish a name change if the deed poll was 'enrolled'. Most name changes were and still are the result of marriage or divorce, so wouldn't normally be evidenced by a deed poll, or advertised anywhere.

 

[Sue_3]

It was only necessary to publish a name change if the deed poll was 'enrolled'. Most name changes were and still are the result of marriage or divorce, so wouldn't normally be evidenced by a deed poll, or advertised anywhere.

My parents changed their surname after they married and before I was born. I have lots of evidence of the use of both surnames at various dates, but no actual evidence of the change of name itself. They said it was changed by deed poll, but it isn't in the Gazette and I haven't found anything in any newspapers about it. I think they had been using the 'new' name most of the time anyway, and so a deed poll would just have been a formality and they probably wouldn't have felt any need to advertise the change. My Dad's full name included his mother's maiden name as a middle name and for various reasons he used that as his surname professionally (he was a musician) and then decided to drop his original surname (his father's surname) altogether.

 

[SLJ]

You would usually need to publish a name change for it to work. That was done, with a deed poll or without, almost always by a notice in the London (or other) Gazette. Now it's in the regulations as part of the process. So the answer to the question of where to look for a record (if not the 1939 register itself) is "in the Gazette".

I'm struggling to find reference to name changes in the Gazette. I'm probably navigating the site totally wrong.

 

[Stuart]

I'm struggling to find reference to name changes in the Gazette. I'm probably navigating the site totally wrong.

The Gazette web site's home page only has a simple archive search box on it. Click on the search (spyglass) icon with nothing in the box to get a fuller search function. You then need to add a name and other search terms and filters, though it's still a rather tricky one to use.

There is a list of notice type codes, which says name changes are code 2901. That produces 23744 hits in all, to give some idea of how many there were. But they are all since 1998 (so just under 1000 per year), for reasons explained in How to search The Gazette:

It should be noted, however, that notice type, notice code and location searches should only be used if you are searching for notices that were published from 1998 onwards. This is because data from 1998 onwards was created from extensible markup language (XML) allowing all filters to be used to search and refine results from this data.

Before that there are only scanned paper copies, and you are searching the OCR'd text. So, basically, you need to enter something like "deed poll" "joyce harvey" in the box, to get both those terms on the same page, and date limits help too. You then have to search the whole page for the right bit, as it is very bad at taking you there. Also bear in mind that what it found in the OCR'd version may not really be there at all (the quality of the digital copies is rather poor.) And it may miss what is there if it OCR'd wrong - so if you can vary what you search for without too many hits coming up, that helps too. As it happens, there are two hits for "joyce harvey" - neither likely to be of interest!

The Deed Poll Office also has a lot of useful information on this, saying much the same has has been said here (but with more authority, of course).

 

[At home in NZ]

You would usually need to publish a name change for it to work. That was done, with a deed poll or without, almost always by a notice in the London (or other) Gazette. Now it's in the regulations as part of the process. So the answer to the question of where to look for a record (if not the 1939 register itself) is "in the Gazette".

I'm struggling to find reference to name changes in the Gazette. I'm probably navigating the site totally wrong.
My suggestion is to try starting here

 

[peter]

Joyce Valerie Klopke married 1950 and became Rybinska

For what it's worth the GRO marriage indexes give her husband's surname as Rybinski, but I suspect it is one of those surnames that changes according to gender.

 

[peter]

The Deed Poll Office also has a lot of useful information on this, saying much the same has has been said here (but with more authority, of course).

Just in case anyone misunderstands, The Deed Poll Office is a commercial venture, and has no official status (in fact there is no official body). There is nevertheless a lot of useful information on their website.