My Dad said... it's in the family bible

[CherylR]

A few years before my father died we were talking about where he grew up, he mentioned a family name I hadn't heard before and when asked how he knew this information he said...well it's in the family bible I think. What family bible??? I had never heard such a thing existed - I was in my forties, had spent the first 10 years of my life living in the same house as my grandparents (Dad's parents) and no one had ever mentioned this before - why? It seemed the family felt there was some scandal - pages missing from the bible etc. so never mentioned it, my interest was piqued. Dad offered to find out where the bible was and a few weeks later the bible was unearthed from one of my aunts. It's an 1852 lectern bible and on the front pages my 2x Great Grandmother had written details of herself, her marriage and the birth of her 3 children, including times and addresses of their births and baptisms - gold dust!

This got me started and the story I uncovered from there has kept me hooked ever since, now over 20 years and I'm still finding more information. I love the social history side as much as anything and spend as much time researching the whole branch as tracing lines back as far as possible. It's amazing what you can discover by looking into where people lived and what occupations they had.

Oh, the missing pages - I don't think there are any, from the way the information is set out and the pages used I think it is complete, but that doesn't mean there was no scandal. My research shows my 2x Great Grandmother was illegitimate. Her mother (my 3x Great Grandmother) seems to have been the mistress of a Bath business man from about the age of 17 or 18 (he was 48 years older than her), bore him at least 4 children, including my 2x G Grandmother before marrying him when his first wife died and they then had one legitimate daughter. When he died 10 years later, leaving them some property and money in his will, my 3x G Grandmother remarried within 6 weeks of his death! and so it goes on...

 

[Susan48]

A fascinating story, Cheryl - welcome to the forum. I do hope you are now the keeper of the family bible.

 

[Margery]

Oh, the missing pages - I don't think there are any

My husband's aunt is the keeper of the family bible which has had the frontispiece carefully removed. While researching the family history I have discovered plenty of scandal (for those days - much of it accepted practice these days) which somebody obviously tried to cover up!

 

[jorghes]

The only family bible I've located in my family is in the possession of one of my cousins in Wales. I got to see it when I visited and took photographs of all the important pages!

 

[canadianbeth]

My cousin in California has the Riches family bible. She says it is boxed up due to its poor condition but, as the next eldest, (we were born the same year but she has had her birthday already and I have not, haha) she will send it to me, and maybe I can find someone here in Calgary to repair it. I had asked her for pictures of the front pages but she says there is nothing in them that we did not already know.

 

[CherylR]

Thanks everyone. Susan 48 - yes I am now the keeper of the family bible, I have looked through every page but there is no further unknown information there. There are some pressed flowers etc as you would often find but no information on where they came from. I also have some old family photo's from this side of the family but as usual no notations and sadly no one left who might know.

 

[JudithH]

A third cousin sent me photos of the family bible for one of my lines and it confirms the marriage of my 3rd great grandparents in that line. The donor of the bible was the witness at their wedding. It also shows what I had suspected for a while that the 2nd great aunts that my Mum recalls were actually cousins of the generation below. In the large family the generations had ‘slipped’ and my gran referred to an older relative as aunt when she was actually a cousin.
Confirming both the tentative wedding records and the cousins was great.

 

[Heather]

my gran referred to an older relative as aunt when she was actually a cousin.

I think this may often happen. My mother was 40 years old when she had me in 1944, her elder sister, my aunt, had a daughter when she was 28 years old in 1927, I was a bridesmaid when her daughter, my cousin, married in 1949, I was 4 yrs and she was 22 yrs, she was always "Aunty" to me, probably because of the age difference.

 

[Katie Bee]

I think this may often happen

I have 3 proper aunts and at least 4 other ladies that I called aunt.
One was a 1st cousin once removed, one was my mum's best friend, one was my grandma's best friend and one was my bother in law's aunt.
We used to call most older ladies who were very good friends of the family 'aunt'.

 

[Sue_3]

This reminds me of when I first started researching my husband's family. After interviewing his mother and consulting various primary sources I thought I was doing quite well, but was unable to identify an often mentioned 'Uncle Charlie'.

Eventually I asked my mother-in-law again who he was? Oh, she said, Bob's father and Uncle Charlie were in the war together. She meant the First World War. So were they related, I asked? 'No no, but they were very good friends and he treated all of Bob's father's children as his own family' was the reply.

I already knew that my husband's 'favourite aunt' was his mother's best friend, so I really shouldn't have been surprised.

These 'unrelated' aunties and uncles are still a big part of the family history though, so definitely deserve a mention in whatever records or narratives we're producing?

In my own more recent family a huge swathe of my 'aunts' and 'cousins' are actually only related to me somewhat distantly by marriage, but I grew up with them and love them dearly!

 

[Bob Spiers]

These 'unrelated' aunties and uncles are still a big part of the family history though, so definitely deserve a mention in whatever records or narratives we're producing?

Couldn't agree more and had countless 'Aunts' and one or two 'Uncles' who were not related to the family...it was just the way children were brought up to acknowledge and respect people who were well known to the family. My sisters and I had Uncle Fred & Aunt Elsie -next door neighbours (and as we had a connecting gate in the back garden it was easy to pop round for a plate of Aunt Elsie's wonderful stew when invited). It was different with neighbours the other side who were always referred to as Mr & Mrs Rowlands. The thing that bugged me as a youngster was to hear Dad addressed as 'Morning Bill' whilst he would respond Morning Mr Rowlands...but similarly addressed the other side Dad would have responded as 'Morning Fred'.

When we visited my grandma (Dad's mother) we often found neighbours looking after her as she was a frail old lady, and they too were always introduced as Aunty this and that and in no way related. It was also common practice to have removed 'older cousins referred to as Aunt or Uncle. Only later when I knew I was visiting my mother's cousin did I find it hard to call her Aunt.

I'm not too sure if similar practices go on today, but would not be at all surprised because it helps children to associate people as 'family friendly' if nothing else.

 

[peter]

I'm not too sure if similar practices go on today, but would not be at all surprised because it helps children to associate people as 'family friendly' if nothing else.

Bob, thanks for your post - reading it I suddenly realised why in my family we used to call them uncles and aunts. It wasn't just a term of endearment, it was because they were sufficiently close friends that our parents referred to them by their first name alone. Of course, we children were't allowed to call people of our parents' generation by their first names - unless prefixed with aunt, uncle, or cousin.

The family friends who were older than us, but younger than our parents, were in a grey area.

 

[jorghes]

I have 3 proper aunts and at least 4 other ladies that I called aunt.
One was a 1st cousin once removed, one was my mum's best friend, one was my grandma's best friend and one was my bother in law's aunt.
We used to call most older ladies who were very good friends of the family 'aunt'.

I have four "proper" aunts and uncles, one step-aunt and uncle, referred to all my great-aunts and uncles as simply "aunt" or "uncle"; I also grew up on a compound in a South Asian country where all the European adults, related or not (we did live there briefly with my father's brother and his family) were referred to as "aunt" or "uncle" as a sign of respect.

Even though I'm an adult now, I struggle to refer to any of my real aunts or uncles or pseudo-aunts or uncles as anything but that!

 

[Bob Spiers]

referred to all my great-aunts and uncles as simply "aunt" or "uncle";

Yes the same here and one particular Great Aunt & Uncle -but known as Aunt Lill & Uncle Bill often came on holiday with us to Porthcawl in Wales . We always stayed at the same B&B and as I discovered much later in life, the owners were known to my maternal Granddad & Grandma as friends or by some obscure family connection which I have never discovered.

One year they (my grandparents) joined us all on holiday and had to come to terms with my grandparents referring to them a Lil & Bill whilst Mom & Dad (and us kids of course) as Aunt Lil & Uncle Bill. Ever the inquisitive child I asked my mother why Granddad didn't call her Aunt Lill, only to be told by my mother that Aunt Lil was Grandad's sister, which was too much to take in at the time. By 'ear-wigging'- I learned Granddad was 'George' & Grandma 'Kate', only to be told, in no uncertain terms by mother, that I must NEVER call them by their christian names, any more than I would refer to my father or her other than as Dad & Mom (The Brummie version of Mum).

Even so I never learned my mother's Aunt & Uncle were our Great Aunt & Uncle, that came much later when I began family research myself. Then I had the added mystery of why some so called Great Aunts and Uncles might also be called 'Grand'.

 

[canadianbeth]

I grew up in that generation as well, where we never called our elders by their given names. My maternal grandmother's was Florence; I think I heard my Grandad call her "Flo" once and she called him "Ben" but no one else ever did of course. Hearing my own parents referred to as Aunty Lily and Uncle Jack always seemed strange as well. These days, here in Canada anyway, it seems that no one is referred to as Mr. or Mrs., everyone not family is called by their given names no matter their age.

 

[JudithH]

Thank you all for so many good examples. I have several ‘borrowed’ aunties and uncles too, my gran's best friend, my Mum’s college friends, plus my Dad’s cousin. We had to show respect to the older generation by calling them Aunt or Uncle. I recall being told I was being cheeky for referring to cousin Alan, since he was not my cousin.

 

[Margery]

it seems that no one is referred to as Mr. or Mrs., everyone not family is called by their given names no matter their age.

Certainly the same in Australia. Our 5 year old neighbour calls us "Margewy and Bill" and she delights us with visits to give us her latest news. My mother had friends whom she always called Mrs...... though the husbands called each other by their given names.

 

[peter]

Thankfully there are no LostCousins members who refer to me as Uncle Peter. I call everyone by their first name, and expect others to do the same; only a very few address me as Mr Calver (which hints at their age).

 

[Bob Spiers]

Hearing my own parents referred to as Aunty Lily and Uncle Jack always seemed strange as well

It's amazing how things posted stir the memory as the above quote does, and reminds my mother and her elder brother's wife were both Hilda's. So in the family there were two Aunt Hilda's. I would query why my cousin (a year older) referred to my mother as Aunt Hilda, when clearly it was his mother who was Aunt Hilda. (Mother, forever patient, would explain why this was so).

But it was even more confusing to the two (much) younger children of my mother's younger brother as they had to contend with two Aunt Hilda's. So, at the family gathering held on Boxing day each year at my Grand Parents house it was often necessary for the grown ups when referring to one of the two Aunt Hilda's to add their surnames . But of course this meant little to children aged 3 or 4, so it was easier to lead them to the right Aunt Hilda.

PS: There is a lovely interesting genealogical tag to add about my Aunt Hilda which I shall relate separately.

 

[Bob Spiers]

My Aunt Hilda married to my mother's elder brother Harold Adams shared a house in Birmingham with her married sister. I often visited my cousin after school and knew Aunt Hilda and Uncle Harold occupied the downstairs rooms, whilst her sister and husband (no children) had the upstairs rooms. Now here is the interesting bit: both sisters were married to an Adams who were NOT of the same line. So a Harold and Hilda Adams living with a Thomas and Mabel Adams. I vaguely remember being told all this but as I only ever encountered Aunt Hilda's sister Mabel (referred to as Aunt Mabel of course) when visiting, I paid little regard to the two Adams lines being different.

All this changed of course when researching the family many years later and, an added bonus, actually found someone researching the 'other' Adams line and we communicated often. The outcome being I learned quite a bit more about Thomas & Mabel (and was able to advance my Aunt Hilda's 'maiden' line), and rendered the same help to the other Researcher about my own Adams line.