Pauline
LostCousins Megastar
Do you mean by using the consular death index as the source and then inputting the exact date?
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Lives of the First World War
- Thread starter Alexander Bisset
- Start date
Liberty
LostCousins Megastar
Pauline
LostCousins Megastar
I guess only my sense of wanting to be sure I do everything "correctly".
But if you think about, if I had the death certificate, then I would presumably be referencing it with what is given in the index, and the information needed to obtain the certificate is what's in the index.
Liberty
LostCousins Megastar
I guess only my sense of wanting to be sure I do everything "correctly".
But if you think about, if I had the death certificate, then I would presumably be referencing it with what is given in the index, and the information needed to obtain the certificate is what's in the index.
Your sense of correctness does you credit.
I think you have enough of a clear trail of evidence to justify putting the exact date of death, if that is what you would like to do. For myself and my relatives who survived the war, I have been content to enter only the year (which is possible for UK deaths). For those who died in the war I feel quite strongly that I would like to have the exact date if at all possible.
Liberty
LostCousins Megastar
I have been going through the names on the war memorial (Chevington, Northumberland) that Fred Hemsley (my grandma's first cousin unveiled).
One thing that is striking is that so many of them were in a single unit, 1st/7th Battalion. Northumberland Fusiliers - marked as Territorials, so I suppose they were members before the war. The unit looks as if it took terrible losses, having fought at Ypres, the Somme and Passchendaele, to name but a few.
The other thing I noted is one of the men who went a slightly different route, becoming a Corporal of Horse in the Household Cavalry, but died just the same. I found him in the 1911 census as a horseman on a farm - and the farm was that of Fred's father (my GGF's brother). One of those shiver down the spine moments
I know that this site is a work in progress but has anyone else tried searching/ adding information
I was geared up to share my Gt grandfather's story..and hit an issue concerning the 'seed' information. I thought it might be prudent to seek opinion before going into battle with the IWM over it!
I was geared up to share my Gt grandfather's story..and hit an issue concerning the 'seed' information. I thought it might be prudent to seek opinion before going into battle with the IWM over it!
Thank you Tim for posting me in the right place! I have been reading down this topic and see that I am not the only one to find the payment requests.
I have not been involved in the trial, and have only chanced upon LFWW yesterday. Have those who have posted stories all managed to end up with a name correct rank, regiment and service number at the top of the page? Mine ended up with the wrong regiment, and service number at the top, although the correct one is also buried in the 'evidence' provided by the site as seed information. I have ended up deleting the information I added because there is a risk that there is another soldier of the same name wrongly added to the medal card. I asked how the site could be sure, just because there are two service numbers and two regiments on the card, that my gt grandfather definitely served, unknown to his family,in two regiments. If this was the case why was only one at the top of the page? I was told they don't do research!! Has anyone challenged the seed information?
I have not been involved in the trial, and have only chanced upon LFWW yesterday. Have those who have posted stories all managed to end up with a name correct rank, regiment and service number at the top of the page? Mine ended up with the wrong regiment, and service number at the top, although the correct one is also buried in the 'evidence' provided by the site as seed information. I have ended up deleting the information I added because there is a risk that there is another soldier of the same name wrongly added to the medal card. I asked how the site could be sure, just because there are two service numbers and two regiments on the card, that my gt grandfather definitely served, unknown to his family,in two regiments. If this was the case why was only one at the top of the page? I was told they don't do research!! Has anyone challenged the seed information?
The bigger question is why are you so sure he DIDN'T serve in two regiments. Just because the family didn't know he did doesn't mean it isn't true. Without actually doing the research it's difficult to be sure. So the onus of proof is on you who are disputing the info rather than on the IWM.
The point is that LotFWW have used the original documents to seed the data. Of course there MAY be a mistake on the medal cards but your questions should be to try to disprove whats on the medal card based on evidence rather than rely on the usually extremely unreliable "family stories".
They are extremely open to having evidence challenged however you need to be able to back up your claims with something dramatically more concrete than "the family didn't know". They aren't "sure" that the medal card is right but it is the physical evidence that exists and their database has indexed that physical evidence. By all means add better evidence and improve the facts but don't write off evidence just because it doesn't fit with preconceived ideas. Writing off evidence that doesn't fit your family stories is THE best way to create your own artificial brick walls.
Isn't it better to say "oh I didn't know he was in two regiments I better dig into that in more details to see if it's true"? Than to dismiss it out of hand and demand that those that have the physical documentary evidence prove they are right vs your word of mouth story? They have nothing to prove they have simply indexed physical evidence nothing more.
So everything you have been told is right. They don't do research, they have just added the info from the medal card EXACTLY AS IT APPEARS. The medal card says he was in two regiments and that's the physical concrete evidence so that's what appears. If you have evidence that proves otherwise then add the evidence to his record. After all that's the whole point of the site, ie: to add extra evidence from various sources previously not brought together to enhance and improve the stories of those who participated.
To answer your question on service numbers; if there are two service numbers/regiments etc. on the medal card then for reasons of clarity and space only one of them is used at the top of the page. I can't recall off the top of my head if it's the earlier or later one that's used.
No problem.
Alexander is right, you need to do more research. Maybe your GGF only spoke about the 2nd regiment as it was more significant to him?
Thank you Alexander, and Tim
I am not as expert on genealogical research as regular users of this forum. Eight years ago when my father was dying I promised him I would make sure his research was not destroyed. I did a little more than that.I got the bug and took it much further. Sadly, the needs of the living have to take priority over researching the dead, and I cannot devote as much time to the subject as I would like to. I have however, learned a few key rules from my own mistakes and those made of others:
1. Stick with what is known and can be collaborated.
2. Don't claim someone as your relative without proof and then share the information as fact because it can mislead other researchers.
3. Family information CAN have a way of leaving things out.
4. Official records CAN be wrong!
So, yes of course I accept that my Gt Grandfather could have had two service numbers, however, the regiment his children waved him off to is the one others in his community would know about. This is an open, collaborative project that will have to draw in many people who know nothing about family history research if it is to succeed not only in being a memorial but also in being a resource for the future. For many novices, finding their relative or comrade of a relative will be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. What goes on top of each page therefore will either assist or seriously hinder those maiden searches. I fear that many will unwittingly attribute the story of someone with a common name, to the wrong page. If there is only room for one regiment and service number it should surely be the one that has the greater degree of proof?
I have for now, withdrawn the photograph I uploaded because the page with the "wrong" regiment at the top does not feel like "his". The trouble is there is no other page to put it and the rest of his poignant story on!
I am not as expert on genealogical research as regular users of this forum. Eight years ago when my father was dying I promised him I would make sure his research was not destroyed. I did a little more than that.I got the bug and took it much further. Sadly, the needs of the living have to take priority over researching the dead, and I cannot devote as much time to the subject as I would like to. I have however, learned a few key rules from my own mistakes and those made of others:
1. Stick with what is known and can be collaborated.
2. Don't claim someone as your relative without proof and then share the information as fact because it can mislead other researchers.
3. Family information CAN have a way of leaving things out.
4. Official records CAN be wrong!
So, yes of course I accept that my Gt Grandfather could have had two service numbers, however, the regiment his children waved him off to is the one others in his community would know about. This is an open, collaborative project that will have to draw in many people who know nothing about family history research if it is to succeed not only in being a memorial but also in being a resource for the future. For many novices, finding their relative or comrade of a relative will be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. What goes on top of each page therefore will either assist or seriously hinder those maiden searches. I fear that many will unwittingly attribute the story of someone with a common name, to the wrong page. If there is only room for one regiment and service number it should surely be the one that has the greater degree of proof?
I have for now, withdrawn the photograph I uploaded because the page with the "wrong" regiment at the top does not feel like "his". The trouble is there is no other page to put it and the rest of his poignant story on!
The regiment and rank at the top of the page will change if you "improve" the facts by adding your own sources.
Also the site is designed to permit users to challenge the facts others have added so if the less clued up users you describe add to the wrong person it can be challenged and moderated. This is the basis of "crowd sourcing" that many eyes working together can improve the data. Also in many ways the site works to discourage those who add random facts to random people by requiring sources.
So if you add your facts and improve the data for your grandfather you can confirm the regiment he was in and change what is displayed at the top of the page.
If it were me I'd look at the erroneous service number and regiment and find out who the similarly named man was. There are two possible outcomes to that approach and BOTH are good.
Firstly you could find out who the man is and demonstrate the error in the medal card this then provides evidence to challenge the medal card and have the data updated and the man with the other service number would be properly recognised.
Alternatively after finding out more about this similarly named man you may come across evidence that proves it is your grandfather. In which case you have enriched your knowledge of your ancestors.
What's to lose?
I'm sure many of us in the forum would be happy to help find out who this other man is and help prove you right.
Also the site is designed to permit users to challenge the facts others have added so if the less clued up users you describe add to the wrong person it can be challenged and moderated. This is the basis of "crowd sourcing" that many eyes working together can improve the data. Also in many ways the site works to discourage those who add random facts to random people by requiring sources.
So if you add your facts and improve the data for your grandfather you can confirm the regiment he was in and change what is displayed at the top of the page.
If it were me I'd look at the erroneous service number and regiment and find out who the similarly named man was. There are two possible outcomes to that approach and BOTH are good.
Firstly you could find out who the man is and demonstrate the error in the medal card this then provides evidence to challenge the medal card and have the data updated and the man with the other service number would be properly recognised.
Alternatively after finding out more about this similarly named man you may come across evidence that proves it is your grandfather. In which case you have enriched your knowledge of your ancestors.
What's to lose?
I'm sure many of us in the forum would be happy to help find out who this other man is and help prove you right.
When soldiers changed from one regiment to another they got a new number (there must have been an enormous amount of reorganisation in WW1 because of the high level of casualties). For more information about army numbers see Paul Nixon's blog.
Pauline
LostCousins Megastar
With my grandfather it is the later one shown at the top of the page. His family were living in Surrey when he first enlisted and he started out in the East Surrey Regiment. By the end of the war he was in the Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment and that is what shows at the top of his page.
EileenF
LostCousins Member
My father started off in the Norfolk regiment and was transferred to the Essex regiment as late as 1919 - and of course he therefore has two service numbers. I have been trying to find out via the internet what the British Army was doing in Italy in 1919, after the war had ended (he was in Genoa). I haven't had any success yet - any suggestions where I can check this out please?
Pauline
LostCousins Megastar
I'm just adding information on someone for whom things are a bit complicated.
For a start, he seems to have more than one medal card and thus several entries on the site - once as Herbert W. Solman and more than once as W H Solman. I have asked for help on this to see if the entries can be combined, and I had already started adding information on him as Herbert W. before realising he was also there as W H.
His service records survive and there he is listed as William Herbert so I've added these forenames into the "served as" name field. However, he still shows as Herbert W. at the top of the page.
Just to complicate matters further, the GRO birth indexes show him as Albert Solman and he was baptised as William Albert. (And yes, I am sure he is the same person!)
Any thoughts on how best to enter his names? I think he was normally known as William, so I'd be reluctant to have Albert showing as his name at the top of the page.
For a start, he seems to have more than one medal card and thus several entries on the site - once as Herbert W. Solman and more than once as W H Solman. I have asked for help on this to see if the entries can be combined, and I had already started adding information on him as Herbert W. before realising he was also there as W H.
His service records survive and there he is listed as William Herbert so I've added these forenames into the "served as" name field. However, he still shows as Herbert W. at the top of the page.
Just to complicate matters further, the GRO birth indexes show him as Albert Solman and he was baptised as William Albert. (And yes, I am sure he is the same person!)
Any thoughts on how best to enter his names? I think he was normally known as William, so I'd be reluctant to have Albert showing as his name at the top of the page.
You can goto the National Archives website and see if they have the war diary for the regiment he was in. That will give you day by day reports of what they were doing. A war diary is purchased but typically it costs £3-4
EileenF
LostCousins Member
Thanks for the tip, Alexander. Unfortunately there are no war diaries covering my father's service - but what a brilliant idea. It would certainly be great to follow day by day reports of an ancestor's wartime experiences. How I wish I had asked my father about the Great War when he was alive - but maybe he wouldn't have wanted to tell me much anyway. His war service certainly put him off setting foot abroad ever again!
I had a look at the Long Long Trail site but I couldn't see any information that would help. Do you know what battalion he was in?
Genoa is a port, so your father's battalion might have been involved in the logistics of transporting men and machinery back to Blighty. But why not contact the Essex Regiment Museum to see if they can help? (There's a link on the Essex Resources page)