LIVER AND BACON WITH OR WITHOUT ONIONS - THE AMBROSIA OF THE GODS

[Bob Spiers]

This relates to Peter's Newsletter and about food one enjoyed as a child, and my eyes lit up when I saw Peter still enjoyed Liver and Bacon. Now I regard myself as something of an aficionado on the subject and have, in my time, crossed swords with dieticians, north versus south Pigs liver or Lambs and whether with or without onions. Even taken umbrage with a wealthy American who screwed up his face at the mention of 'Liver' as for those born the wrong side of the track. So here I go.

Looking back I would not regard my mother as a great cook (she boiled greens forever and roasted meat until "well done" was probably an understatement) but boy could she cook Liver and Onions. It was a once a week treat and the gravy that accompanied was out of the world...but always (repeat ALWAYS) Pigs liver or as it is now called, Pork liver. Lambs liver never saw the light of day in our house. (More on that in a moment as on Bacon as an accompaniment).

I recall back in my RAF days speaking with a Dietician who advocated Liver (no accompaniment just Liver) as the 'must have' in everyone's diet. She would wax lyrical in how nutritionally good it was, rich in this and that vitamin, and particularly iron. She referred to it as the Ambrosia of the gods. This pleased me although I knew from experience the Liver and Bacon (with onions on the side) served in the Mess was NOT Pigs liver, but lambs (as confirmed by the Cooks). When I mentioned this to the Dietician she assured me it did not matter as far as nutrition went and smiled when I said Lambs liver just had no taste. I even argued that as Bacon was served with it and one could help oneself to onions, this sort of made up for the taste difference.

Move forward many years and in a second marriage with a wife who, as a child, was brought up eating Pigs liver and onions I was overjoyed to find we shared the same taste. She was from Northampton (about 60 miles south of Birmingham) and where I discovered some family members advocated serving with Bacon and one I recall did away with the Onions...how awful!

Move forward to living in Kent I discovered Lambs liver was not only the norm but one had to place a special order with the Butcher to obtain Pork (how posh) Liver. Luckily this changed when Supermarkets (not sure about Waitrose) began to stock Pork Liver alongside Lambs, although in greatly reduced quantities. When we came across it we would buy two or three packs and freeze them.

Then I crossed swords with another lady Dietician, this time one referred by my doctor as I had put on weight and he thought I needed dietary advice. I can recall to this day being told that LIVER WAS A "NO-NO " as any form of offal was no longer part of any professional dietary advice. I cannot recall my exact response but do remember telling her of the first Dietician's advice of it being the Ambrosia of the Gods, only to be told... "things have changed". I also remember telling her IT WAS NOT advice I would heed and as I was Cook and both my wife and I loved the meal, it would remain on the Menu. I think we parted friends but just disagreed on eating Liver.

By now I was cooking Liver, Bacon and Onions but always Pigs Liver. On occasion I would order Liver & Bacon (always insisting on onions) in a Pub but in the south it always came up as Lambs Liver, so I gave up on this in the end. I know from experience eating out up north and talking to people from Lancashire and Yorkshire one learns of the great Pig/Lamb liver divide. But in the south most people choose Lambs liver because it is the easiest to get.

Only one tale remains to be told and that was (in my job) meeting up with a wealthy American for whom we were doing contract fit out work for his house in London. Taking him to lunch on behalf of the Company in London he volunteered that one of the things his money had brought was no longer having to eat LIVER as he had to do as a child because his family was born on the on the wrong side of the tracks. He added I expect it was the same over here? I politely disagreed with him saying that this lad from a working class family, and living in a Council House (had to explain what that was but he equated it to also being on the wrong side of the tracks) still enjoyed eating Liver accompanied by Bacon and Onions. He listened with the same a degree of politeness, but was not convinced.

These days I cook Pigs (classed as Pork) liver served with unsmoked back bacon lightly grilled, and sautéed onions and served with a thick onion gravy. Usually accompany by Broccoli. I am never so happy cooking as when Liver is on the Menu.

I should also add I sometimes like to obtain Calves Liver (which I know like Veal is a no no with some people) and as we no longer can just pop over to France from Kent for the day -as we did not that many years ago- have to rely these days on specialist suppliers. This takes things to fine dining levels, but I think I have covered the subject enough as it is and let others tell what meals they enjoyed as a child, and do so today.

 

[Pauline]

I really dislike liver - it’s not just the taste, it’s all those tube things you find inside it. I’m not a great fan of bacon either, but I love onions.

 

[peter]

I'm with Bob on this, except that I've got used to lamb's liver since for a long time pig's liver was so hard to find. And I'm not sure from his description that Bob cooks everything together . I put the bacon on top towards the end of the cooking time so that the tasty juices (OK, fat) end up in the gravy.

 

[Bob Spiers]

I put the bacon on top towards the end of the cooking time so that the tasty juices (OK, fat) end up in the gravy.

Agree on that statement and although perhaps not the same sequentially the amalgamated items coming together with the bacon and onions flavouring the gravy is what matters.

Have several cooking variations on a theme, and (unlike my mother) coat the liver with salt & pepper seasoned (sieved) flour, shaken off and cooked for a very short time on a high heat and turned once. Set aside in the oven and bacon added - onions strained, and juices (yes fat) added to make gravy. I sometimes vary the bacon cooking (frying rather than grilling) as the mood takes but the main thing is to enjoy the end product and I await my wife's tasting approval. I like the liver to be 'rare' pink inside, and my wife prefers 'medium' so always ensure some meet that standard. But never - never - well done and tough.

 

[canadianbeth]

As far as I know, liver here is from the cow and I will not touch it. It was the only thing that my mother did not force me to eat, possibly because there were unfortunate results that I do not remember. Anyway, it has never darkened my door during my married life, since my husband also does not care for it. I did, however, buy it as baby food when the children were little.
I also will not touch coffee, not the drink nor anything flavoured with it.

 

[peter]

Calves liver is considered a delicacy. I can't say I prefer it, but I certainly enjoy it, although it's usually served without gravy.

I wouldn't drink coffee or tea as a child, but coffee chocolates (and especially chocolate Walnut Whips) were my favourite even then. I eventually came to love coffee as a drink, but still can't stand builder's tea.

 

[canadianbeth]

Many years ago, a supervisor gave me and my co-workers each a bottle of Irish Cream. I said "hey if it is Irish it has to be good", haha. I took one taste and said there is coffee in this. I was looked at as though I had two heads, so I checked the list of ingredients and there it was. Way down at the bottom but I could taste it. I tried putting a little into my hot chocolate but eventually just tossed it.
I had to Google builder's tea. I am not sure what that would be here; we drink Red Rose, Earl Grey, although I rarely drink it myself; once a week with friends before the lockdown.

 

[peter]

Many years ago, a supervisor gave me and my co-workers each a bottle of Irish Cream. I said "hey if it is Irish it has to be good", haha. I took one taste and said there is coffee in this. I was looked at as though I had two heads, so I checked the list of ingredients and there it was. Way down at the bottom but I could taste it. I tried putting a little into my hot chocolate but eventually just tossed it.
I had to Google builder's tea. I am not sure what that would be here; we drink Red Rose, Earl Grey, although I rarely drink it myself; once a week with friends before the lockdown.

I can't stand Irish Cream (best known here as Bailey's) - I only tried it once, but once was enough (I felt sick). I didn't know it had coffee in, but I'd still find it too sweet and sickly to drink, though it might work well in a trifle.

I drink Earl Grey tea with breakfast, Lapsang Souchong with lunch, and Chai after my evening meal. Almost anything described as English tea would qualify as builders tea in my book - far too much tannin for my liking, which is probably why so many people still have sugar in their tea.

 

[Bryman]

Bob's original post in this discussion must be one of his longest but I found so much to agree with although here in NZ it tends to be lamb's liver (I wonder why?) and is usually labelled as Lamb's Fry in the supermarkets. I think that his original nutritionist had it about right. I once read that wild animals usually eat the offal first after making a kill because that is more nutritious than the muscle meat more favoured by humans. Certainly, our pet Jack Russell dog enjoys liver and heart much more than other variations.

Perhaps I should now go and read the newsletter.

 

[At home in NZ]

I honestly cannot remember how my mother cooked liver and bacon, for all I know the method I use may have been copied from her.
Buy a lump of lambs liver and cut it myself into slices about 2cm (an inch) thick. Coat the liver in flour, heat the oil in a frying pan, place the bacon around the edges and the liver in the middle. Turn the heat down after the facing down side has browned, turn the liver over and allow that side to brown then turn the heat down even further (I use electricity to cook with).
Allow the bacon to crisp. Serve with mashed potatoes and home grown broad beans. Gravy is from a packet for 'him' and sloshed with HP sauce for me.

The thought of pigs liver turns my stomach, I did buy it on the odd occasion but didn't like the leathery effect. I love pork and most pork products. We have found a delicatessen that sells home made, and yes they really are homemade, pork pies. They are delicious and taste just like those I used to get in England (40 plus years ago).

My childhood favourite foods:
Mum's rabbit stew.
Mum's 'rock cakes' which were a basic fruit cake, mini size.
Mum's roast beef with roast spuds, Yorkshire pud, gravy and horseradish sauce.

Traditional foods we still have:
Sausage and mash with fried onions and gravy or HP sauce.
Stew and dumplings, although it is getting harder to get suet for the dumplings.

I too cannot drink coffee or eat anything coffee flavoured, taste and smell are very off putting. I refuse to go into coffee shops because of the smell.
I have never drunk tea for the same reason.

EDIT: Almost forgot, mum's toad in the hole was delicious, I am not good at it, the batter never rises properly.

 

[Margery]

labelled as Lamb's Fry

As a child I only ever knew liver as Lamb's Fry, though I do remember my mother saying how please she was if she could get a calve's liver, certainly pig's liver was never mentioned (then again, I can't remember ever having any pork at all). My mother was a very "English" cook and we seemed to eat quite different meals to my Aussie friends who seemed to have lots of bright green (carb. soda?) vegetables, over cooked meat and everything covered in gravy. Even though there were only three of us, she always served the vegetables in vegetable dishes and my father always carved the "joint".

I wouldn't drink coffee or tea as a child

My parents were very particular about their tea and coffee and I drink both. I can't remember their preferred tea but have vivid memories of a shop in the Strand Arcade in Sydney which sold coffee beans and on (the very rare) visits to the city we would always go there, ahh the aroma - what a treat!
It's hard to remember my favourite meal but I remember a stew made from "best end" neck of mutton. This cut is unobtainable now as is mutton in any form. Oh, I forgot to mention that our vegetables were always home-grown.

Perhaps I should now go and read the newsletter.

Good idea! Don't miss out on the gardening section. Hippieastrums are a spectacular flower and you need no special skills to have a great display!

 

[Bob Spiers]

Calves liver is considered a delicacy. I can't say I prefer it, but I certainly enjoy it, although it's usually served without gravy.

I agree the gravy should not be the same as that for conventional liver (of either type) but Calves liver deserves a gravy sauce, or as my late French/Australian Brother-in-Law would say Au Jus (with juice). He prepared a similar sauce for Veal Escalope. The secret was to add a splash (according to taste) of a dry Masala (never sweet) wine, or Madeira to the juices.

 

[Bob Spiers]

I've lost count over the years of who, in the family and friends, likes coffee or tea, and who likes neither. It was all so simple back in my grandparents day, you were served tea from tea spooned from 'blue' bags filled from tea chests at the local Grocery stores. I've long forgotten the names of the 'chain' grocery stores, but I do recall one of Mom's cousins worked in one and recall accompanying my mother and watching my 'Aunt' filling bags of tea, and cutting up slabs of butter. Tea was brewed in a teapot, allowed to stand (I think the term was to 'stew') then poured (using a strainer) into china cups. If milk was required (few drank it black) it was added first and I remember Mom being a stickler for that. Everyone in those days took sugar and it would be a good few years before I gave up sugar in any beverage.

The alternative to tea for us kids was 'pop' (a fizzy drink mainly lemonade, Vimto or something similar). As for coffee that was either the ersatz wartime version called 'Camp' (made from acorns I believe) which I couldn't stand, although my Mother drank at the weekend I seem to recall. Dad, like his mother and siblings only ever drank tea, so no wonder I and my sisters became tea drinkers also.

I recall the advent of 'instant' coffee granules with such brands as Nescafe, but it never caught on for me until years later, and then only at breakfast, rarely later in the day. Although primarily a tea drinker I never quite matched my mate Pete who (and later with his wife) drank it as though it was going out of fashion.

I have never really become the coffee aficionado like some I know, and particularly my daughter and son-in-law. In fact I wouldn't know what to order in a Costa or Starbucks. As for drinking real coffee made from ground beans served in small cups (Italian style), not my scene at all. Nor for that matter the several flavours of tea like those mentioned by Peter (Earl Grey being the occasional exception) or the 'fruit' flavoured herbal ones much loved by my daughter and granddaughter.

Give me a cup of English tea (any of the proprietary brands) any day. A little milk but no sugar.

 

[Bob Spiers]

One of my favourite childhood dishes was a Meat Stew, but sadly not my mother's but that of our next door neighbour Mrs Clayton. She referred to is as her 'Pearl Barley Stew' but of course Pearl barley was only used to thicken the liquid. I cannot remember whether the main meat body was Beef or Lamb or what herbs she used to add flavour.

I should explain we lived in a row of terraced council houses (in Birmingham). Small front gardens but quite large back gardens. Dad had made a wicket gate to afford access to the 'Claytons' one side with whom they were friendly, as opposed to the 'Rowlands' on the other side who were just neighbours separated by a privet hedge.

The Clayton children had long grown up and fled the nest, so when Mrs Clayton prepared her stew, she always had some left over. One day she asked Mom if any of the children fancied a bowl of stew and was told in no uncertain terms that as Bobby always came home from school ravenous, she was sure he would be delighted to partake. I do recall asking if I would like the stew, only to be told she had no doubt I would. Like it? I adored it and it became a weekly treat. (My sisters incidentally preferred Mom's stews which is as well as I recall asking why her stews never tasted as good as Mrs Claytons). Mind you to be fair I made up for it by telling her no one made Liver & Onions as good as she and in so doing saved the day.

I must admit I have experimented since using Pearl Barley in various forms including in stews, but never quite relived the experience of Mrs Clayton's stew. The secret surely lay in the type and cut of meat, and most likely the herbs used to flavour. So it will remain just a memory.

 

[peter]

I've long forgotten the names of the 'chain' grocery stores

Possibly Liptons?

The alternative to tea for us kids was 'pop'

You were lucky - when I was younger we only had fizzy drinks at Christmas.

'Camp' (made from acorns I believe)

"Coffee and chicory essence" was what it used to say on the label, but it now reads "Chicory and coffee essence". I suspect that doesn't reflect a change in ingredients, just tougher labelling regulations.

One of my favourite childhood dishes was a Meat Stew, but sadly not my mother's but that of our next door neighbour Mrs Clayton. She referred to is as her 'Pearl Barley Stew' but of course Pearl barley was only used to thicken the liquid. I cannot remember whether the main meat body was Beef or Lamb or what herbs she used to add flavour.

Very probably lamb - we had lamb stew made with big chunks of neck bone and lots of pearl barley. If we had beef stew there were dumplings instead.

 

[Tim]

Almost forgot, mum's toad in the hole was delicious, I am not good at it, the batter never rises properly.

Here's the Yorksire Pudding recipe I use, never had any failures.

225 grams Plain Flour
Half Teaspoon of Salt
4 Large eggs
300 millilitres Milk

Add the eggs and salt to the milk and whisk.
Slowly add the this mixture to the flour and hand whisk until you get a batter.

Use a hot oven (I tend to have it on 220 deg C) and once in, don't open the door until it's cooked, about 20-25 mins.

I tend to use Blue Milk (Full Fat or 4% I think it's called) but it also works with skimmed milk.

Let me know if it works for you It's a recipe I borrowed from Gordon Ramsey.

 

[At home in NZ]

Here's the Yorksire Pudding recipe I use, never had any failures.

Thanks Tim, do you put the sausages in raw or semi cooked?

 

[Tim]

Semi cooked, to add some colour to them

Oh, and I use a metal roasting tin, it never rises too well in a glass dish.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Possibly Liptons?

Bang on with that just couldn't remember the name Liptons

You were lucky - when I was younger we only had fizzy drinks at Christmas.

I was probably stretching the truth a little, but recalling weekly visits to see Grandma Spiers and also meeting up with various aunts and uncles and assorted cousins.

After barely 15 minutes my Dad and his brother would excuse themselves and go off to the pub (10 yards down and across the road) for a game of darts. I -the eldest - would accompany them to the off licence with a jug to be filled with milk stout for the ladies. (This they would drink during the evening after the ceremonial tea drinking mentioned previously).

Grandma believed children should be seen but not heard, so we were told to go outside and play but she would give me a shilling (perhaps 1s 6d if necessary) to go the local chippie (also 10 yards but on the same side of the road) to buy a bag of chips for myself, siblings and cousin(s). They were in our estimation the best chips in Birmingham and I think the chip shop owner was Greek or Cypriot. They also threw in a bag of 'scratchings' for free which were frequently argued over. Now to the bottle of 'pop'.

Mom would also slip me a 6d to buy a bottle from the Chip Shop which we had to share amongst us. That is where my memory came from. At home it was very much a cup of tea or "there's water in the tap"...or of course birthdays and Christmas for a bottle of 'pop' to ourselves.

"Coffee and chicory essence" was what it used to say on the label, but it now reads "Chicory and coffee essence". I suspect that doesn't reflect a change in ingredients, just tougher labelling regulations.

Not sure where I got the 'made from acorns' from (probably one of those apocryphal stories) but thinking back now yes "Chicory" I remember that being on the label.

Very probably lamb - we had lamb stew made with big chunks of neck bone and lots of pearl barley. If we had beef stew there were dumplings instead.

.
Also my wife's opinion as she too remembers her mother getting 'neck of lamb' meat to make a 'lamb Stew" although not made with Pearl Barley it seems. I also was a great fan of dumplings when Mom made a Beef Stew. Which reminds the only time my wife reverts back to cooking (having taught me years ago) is to make dumplings when I do a Beef Stew. But even there it raises family controversary as my wife only ever uses Plain Flour as taught by her mother. My UK sister insists on using Self raising flour which makes the dumplings float, where my wife's dumplings sink...if you pardon the expression.

 

[CeeJay]

You should brown (semi cook) the sausages in the oven in the dish you will use. This works well as I was always told that the pan should be hot before adding the batter mix to the sausages, and then get it back into the hot oven asap. I find glass works just as well for Toad in the Hole.