How many Grandparents have you found?

[Britjan]

Quoting Peter from his latest newsletter " No doubt I would have found his baptism eventually, but when we're back this far in our tree - barring cousin marriages we have 256 6G grandparents to research - we need all the help we can get!"
Congratulations Gillian , how many 6G's have you identified?

 

[Gillian]

Right now I'm not sure. I'll have a look some time and let you know!
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I posted that a while ago but it didn't go anywhere because it was awaiting moderator approval. As far as I can see I have identified nine 6xgreat grandfathers (plus wives) on the paternal side, but only two on the maternal side. The dismal showing on my mother's side is due to the fact that I haven't got round to studying her side in depth plus I've reached a full stop with her Scottish forebears at my 3xgreat grandfather. On my father's side, I've likewise reached a full stop with the Irish ancestors at my 2xgreat-grandfather.

 

[AdrienneQ]

This made me think how many I have - my father was Southern Irish so that side peters out very quickly

1 times GG Parent 8
2 times GG Parent 15 (so only missing one)
3 times GG Parent 17
4 times GG Parent 17
5 times GG Parent 16
6 times GG Parent 12
7 times GG Parent 10
8 times GG Parent 12
9 times GG Parent 10
10 times GG Parent 1 (this is Richard Smith who was born in Croston, Lancashire in about 1600)

 

[Pauline]

I have identified about 64 of my 6x great grandparents, and around 8-10 11x great grandparents.

However, leaving aside things like cousin marriages, illegitimate ancestors and the varying availability of records in different countries, the answer to this question will to a fair extent depend on the age of the researcher. The younger the researcher, the later their 6x gt grandparents will have lived, and the more likely it is the records needed to identify them will have survived.

I'm no spring chicken, but at least one of my 6x gt grandparents died late enough (in England) for me to obtain a death certificate for them, and several others almost made it. And living that bit later than some people's 6 greats will have lived has made finding them easier.

 

[Bryman]

Very impressive AdrienneQ. I also tried to determine how many GG Parents I have identified and think that I am struggling to get anywhere close.

I have a slightly strange setup with a separate tree for each surname, more or less, with links between trees when most marriages are identified.
This keeps the charts much simpler but also makes it harder to gather overall statistics such as in this case. However, I do have some preliminary figures but doubt that I shall even try to get as far as 10G GP!!

So far, I believe that I have found . . .
1G GP - 8/8
2G GP - 14/16
3G GP - 14/32
4G GP - 14/64
5G GP - 8/128
6G GP - 8/256
7G GP - 8/512

I have only counted those for whom I know Birth Surname, Birth Forename and at least one of YoB or YoD.

What success have other members achieved? Does anybody have a 'full house' up to the 3G level, ie Peter's LC Ancestor Chart fully populated?

 

[emjay]

No way !

 

[Gillian]

As far as I can see I have identified nine 6xgreat grandfathers (plus wives) on the paternal side,

Since writing the above I've found two more 6xgreat greats, so the count is now 11.

Does anybody have a 'full house' up to the 3G level, ie Peter's LC Ancestor Chart fully populated

Sadly, no, because of the Irish block. I have 28 out of a possible 32. Someone in Ireland has my missing 3xggps in his tree but he gives no sources (nor does he reply to enquiries) so I'm doubtful.

 

[SuzanneD]

What success have other members achieved? Does anybody have a 'full house' up to the 3G level, ie Peter's LC Ancestor Chart fully populated?

I have 31.5 out of 32 names: one maiden surname is missing. I have no dates for that couple (the names are slightly uncertain as they are sourced from my 2g-g's death certificate) and just a marriage date for another pair.

I have an advantage over many of the group in that I was born in the '70s (and my youngest grandparent was born in the '20s) so almost all my 3g-grandparents were still alive in 1841 - one of them was born after then.

 

[Bryman]

Well done SuzanneD. That is so close. The missing maiden surname is a shame but slightly uncertain dates are probably not very important. After all, ages quoted in census returns are often one year out.

I have now raised my count of 3G GP to 18/32 but I obviously have a long way to go. Perhaps my school report was correct when it stated that I must try harder!! I am beginning to wonder if I will ever be successful with my two missing 2G GP. I only know that his surname was Collins so he may possibly have been from Ireland. Nothing against the Irish, as such, but they do seem to have been a little unlucky with their housekeeping.

I have discovered one 13G GP couple, William and Jane, who were 'hiding' in a small Shropshire village (with the occasional foray by relatives across the boarder into Wales to find wives) but I only have approximate YoD for each, based on their wills which suggest 1560 +/- 5 years.
BTW, all wives from Wales seem to have come from a single family having a surname of Jones so I am looking for a large family with many daughters. Can anyone help?

I also have Deith and Gompertz (both from Germany) in my ancestral lines so that complicates matters a little. What is the furthest any forum member can trace back being completely 'British', ie no foreign intrusion, at least not since 1066 or thereabouts?

(Sorry Moderators. This is getting severely off the original topic. Please separate if you consider appropriate.)

 

[Liberty]

Up to 3G grandparents - I would have a full house, had one of my Great grandfathers not been illegitimate, so the line of his father stops dead. Apart from that, I am pretty confident back to 3GGparents on all lines, and some generations back for some lines.
I was born in the 1950s, and in 1841 all the 2G grandparents I know of were alive, most of them living with their parents (two were under one year old), so a lot of the 3Gs were around and some of the 4Gs. On the other extreme, one of my 2G GFs was a middle aged widower (my GGF not yet born) and his father would have been nearly a hundred had he still been alive in 1841

 

[Katie Bee]

I only have 7 great grandparents as I have one illegitimacy
I have 12 great great grandparents due to 2 more illegitimate births.
I have 17 3xG grandparents. It could be 19 but I think one set are grandparents and not parents, yet another illegitimacy!
It could just be 15 as 2 sets of 3xG grandparents are the same couple which leads to a cousins marriage lower down the family tree.
Bit of a mess

 

[Bob Spiers]

What success have other members achieved? Does anybody have a 'full house' up to the 3G level, ie Peter's LC Ancestor Chart fully populated?

Would you believe until I read these postings, I had only a vague idea of how I would stand in the higher ranks beyond 3G but was reasonably confident I had a full house up to 3G level. Now using the yardstick most seem to use I too must downgrade (as Suzanne) to 31 1/2 as I still have one (maiden) surname which eludes me for a spouse born 1786-1847. (It may be time to resurrect my research to see if I can overcome this shortfall).

A quick check on 4G shows 48 out of 64, although weighted (as the statisticians would say) for half solutions (missing spouse surnames for the most part) that would be 45 {42+6 x 1/2} so I have 16 ancestors yet to identify. Beyond 4G (and this time without adjustments for missing surnames) 5G=34 and 6G=14. Like Gillian I hold absolutely no hope to get much further with my Irish block (although I seem to have navigated beyond 3G) and little for that matter with my Scottish element but I will persevere nevertheless.

To a large degree -and alluded to by Pauline - it depends on the age of the researcher which will in turn define the time generations, which is why having almost a full house at 3G level for me is quite something and although I say it myself even 4G is better than par. Beyond 6G I have hardly scratched the surface and to be fair is not a priority.

 

[jorghes]

I probably should have an advantage - as I was born in the 80's, but like SuzanneD my youngest grandparent was born in the early 1920s (there is a 10 yr age gap between my maternal and paternal grandfathers). I also have a highly mobile family tree, which makes you come to unfortunate dead ends due to not knowing what their home county was. (plus a bit of illegitimacy and a pair of first cousins getting married).

So my first gap comes in with my g-g-grandparents (15/16), as one of my g-grandparents was illegitimate (and no direct male descendants, so DNA won't be a great help necessarily); so then it follows that I have two missing from my 3Gs (30/32), but then unfortunately it starts to get a bit sparse.
I'm missing 14 from my 4Gs (50/64) due to a combination of only just discovering the name of the mother of one of my 2Gs - thus nothing above her or her husband; missing wives/mothers; unknown places of birth, one set of 3Gs immigrating from Ireland (although who knows where! - pre 1825), and of course the 4 person gap created by my illegitimate g-grandfather.
It all goes downhill from there considering I have a lot of missing maiden names, birth places and spouses at the 4G level (the wonders of having immigrating ancestors, not just from the motherland to the colonies, but within the motherland as well!) and the gaps come out at the 5G level, of whom I have 43/128. Past 5G level, one portion of my tree doubles up due to the fact that one set of 4G were first cousins whose mothers were of course sisters - so that makes it 36 (with 2 doubled) at 6G and 24 (4 doubled) at 7G.

Well done SuzanneD. That is so close. The missing maiden surname is a shame but slightly uncertain dates are probably not very important. After all, ages quoted in census returns are often one year out.

I have now raised my count of 3G GP to 18/32 but I obviously have a long way to go. Perhaps my school report was correct when it stated that I must try harder!! I am beginning to wonder if I will ever be successful with my two missing 2G GP. I only know that his surname was Collins so he may possibly have been from Ireland. Nothing against the Irish, as such, but they do seem to have been a little unlucky with their housekeeping.

I have discovered one 13G GP couple, William and Jane, who were 'hiding' in a small Shropshire village (with the occasional foray by relatives across the boarder into Wales to find wives) but I only have approximate YoD for each, based on their wills which suggest 1560 +/- 5 years.
BTW, all wives from Wales seem to have come from a single family having a surname of Jones so I am looking for a large family with many daughters. Can anyone help?

I also have Deith and Gompertz (both from Germany) in my ancestral lines so that complicates matters a little. What is the furthest any forum member can trace back being completely 'British', ie no foreign intrusion, at least not since 1066 or thereabouts?

(Sorry Moderators. This is getting severely off the original topic. Please separate if you consider appropriate.)

Just a little note for you - I have a "Collins" in my tree as well. I thought they were English, since my 2G grandmother was born in London, but have since discovered that "Collins" is actually anglicised "Van Kollem", and they're Dutch Jews. (that's not actually the father's anglicised name either).

I thought I was completely "British" (with a hearty dose of Scottish and Welsh) - even going considering that my family were immigrants to the colonies. Once I started searching, I found the pair of 3Gs who had immigrated from Ireland (although considering the surname it's most likely they originally came from Scotland anyway); and then I discovered that my innocuous "Collins" where Jews, then that they were European Jews and all that entails! (a couple of 100 years in the Netherlands and before that Germany and the Czech Republic or something like that).

Otherwise, the rest of my research is holding out the "British" side, at least on the maternal side.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Now using the yardstick most seem to use I too must downgrade (as Suzanne) to 31 1/2 as I still have one (maiden) surname which eludes me for a spouse born 1786-1847. (It may be time to resurrect my research to see if I can overcome this shortfall).

Touch wood and given a favourable wind I may have finally located the missing maiden name of the spouse of a paternal 3xGreat grandfather, previously just Elizabeth. Suffice to say the candidate has the right birth year and most importantly was born in the right place (a small village), with no other contender even close. Other Ancestry researchers still have her as Elizabeth (Unknown) -but all agree her birth year and at least one the same place. I am still without a marriage confirmation, but now have a new set of parents to research and would you believe her mother is also an Elizabeth (a 4xg contender) and of course unknown. For the time being let me say I am cautiously optimistic I shall soon have a full 3xg house.

 

[Bryman]

Other Ancestry researchers still have her as Elizabeth (Unknown) -but all agree her birth year and at least one the same place.

I am always suspicious when finding several Ancestry users with identical details and nothing extra to add. I sometimes look to see if anyone has found a reason for selecting one individual out of a crowd of similar 'ancestors'. I am normally rather disappointed. I wonder how long it will be before they all have 'your' extra surname for Elizabeth??

I find that "a small village" is no guarantee that one has found the right family. Sometimes the grown-up children lived on in the same village and reused their parent's forenames, just to confuse their descendants.

Do let us all know when you achieve a fully populated Ahnentafel chart. That would show that it can be done. If you are quick, you may even be elevated to Lost Cousins Master, or some such (in the birthday honours list).

 

[Pauline]

I find that "a small village" is no guarantee that one has found the right family

This reminds me of one of my better gaffes in my early days of researching - potential ancestor found in the expected small village, with expected year of birth and with parents' names that were reflected in her children's names. All was looking rosy until a few weeks later I discovered this "ancestor" was buried the day after her baptism..........

Moving back on topic, I am not optimistic I will ever achieve a full house of 3 greats as I have 2 illegitimate 2 greats, and I don't know if I will ever be able to determine who their fathers were.

 

[Bob Spiers]

I am always suspicious when finding several Ancestry users with identical details and nothing extra to add

Yes I agree there are quite a few Ancestry Researchers who copy the details of others, and on a much grander and sillier scale in the database whose names I will not utter (two words 'M' & 'H') However as my posting record of the past shows I am not an Ancestry 'nay-sayer', and if others choose to piggy back on the researches of others; that is there look-out. Many do so as beginners before realising they are being led by the nose, and often settle down to be reasonably proficient in weighing up what they have found out (by whatever means) and then seeing if others have trodden the same path. I am an ardent communicator and often recognise related Trees and their owners as my Trees (I have more than one) are Public as are 90% of those I browse. If I need to seek information from a Private Tree, then I send the owner a message. Over time I have been given a fair few Guest privileges and trust the information I find in those Trees. It is however fair to say 'Researcher Beware' ( which my handy latin translator tells me is Cavendum Explorator)


I concur about villages being no guarantee one has the right family and accept that as a word to the wise. I am a natural sceptic when it comes to just accepting information (as evidence recently into delving into the Irish 1841/1851 registers with even Peter telling me the evidence was pretty overwhelming). I rely on the 'all roads lead to Rome' principle and even then my Ancestry Tree pages are littered with Comments (& my Tribalpages with veritable essays) in which I state why I choose such and such a solution. In Ancestry I invite others who disagree (or even concur) to get in touch.

It may be a while before I can go from Amber to Green with my elusive Elizabeth maiden name as I have more or less exhausted online sources and live too far away to conduct Parish or archive researches. However I have a few friends in the Worcestershire area who may be able to oblige but that will take time. I will of course post when I feel I have tied up the loose ends.

 

[peter]

I have 2 illegitimate 2 greats, and I don't know if I will ever be able to determine who their fathers were

It would depend when they were born and whether the Poor Law-related documents have survived. Otherwise you might have to resort to DNA tests.

 

[Katie Bee]

Otherwise you might have to resort to DNA tests.

That is what we are trying.
My male cousin has taken the Y-DNA to try to pin point the missing male on the father - father line.
That has brought up vague matches relating to Ireland.
My aunt and I have taken the family finder, but nothing very close yet.
I do find all the matches a bit overwhelming, but after listening to one of the DNA talks at WDYTYAlive, I have a few more ideas including using the website GEDmatch that you mentioned in your latest newsletter.
Fingers crossed.
K

 

[Pauline]

It would depend when they were born and whether the Poor Law-related documents have survived.

I've so far only been able to find a reputed father for one of my illegitimate ancestors in poor law & related records, though I have found details in these records of several of my ancestors having illegitimate children that I don't descend from.

Otherwise you might have to resort to DNA tests.

Is that a realistic expectation yet?