Cousins or not???

[SueMay]

I don’t normally use Ancestry as I have found it expensive, so mainly use FindMyPast (which I am very happy with) and FamilySearch, however, my son gave me an Ancestry DNA test for Christmas.

Once I received the results I decided to use Ancestry to find cousins, mainly to check my research.

I found a ½ cousin through my 2 x great grandfather (he married twice) confirming the research I’d done up to there. This is where it got interesting especially as I’d not know what had happened to my 2 x great grandfather’s ½ brother. It turns out he joined the army, met and married his Irish wife in Ireland, they went to India where a daughter was born, but sadly he died shortly afterwards. I am yet to find out more about his wife and the early years of his daughter.

So, I then did a tree search for my 3 x great grandfather, who I found along with the other children which I knew about. Even though it came up saying that they weren't DNA match, I decided to contact her in case it was maybe her husband. With contacting her, it turns out she is the 'connection' and that she has done a test! When I pointed out the fact that we were not a match, she didn't sound at all concerned, saying "it makes you wonder what was going on years ago ….. doesn't it !"

She has been doing research for a lot longer than me, with a few trees, and probably has good access to records living near Salt Lake City in Utah and says she has a will and other documents in her possession from her father for my 3 x great grandfather.

What does one do? Or how do I continue? What are the chances of finding another ancestor who will be able to help work out who my 4 x great grandfather was?


I guess my main quandary is more about the fact that I am still within the 14 day free trial period but would like to confirm the next step and am wondering whether or not to then move onto a paid subscription.

My apologies for such a long winded post and if this is not the place to post, then please feel free to delete.

Looking forward to hearing comments and suggestion.
Many thanks, Sue

 

[peter]

The main advantage of having an Ancestry subscription is being able to look at the public trees of your DNA matches - this is definitely useful, but if you don't have a subscription you can always ask your cousins to invite you to view their tree (which doesn't require a subscription). If their tree is public it's hard to see why they would refuse - so you can still continue even if you don't decide to subscribe after the 14 days are up.

(Something else to bear in mind is that Ancestry often offer discounted subscriptions to members who have taken a DNA test.)

For reasons of privacy Ancestry won't tell you if another member has tested their DNA unless their DNA matches yours - so the fact that you don't have a DNA match with the tree owner doesn't mean that you're not cousins. However, just because someone is a cousin doesn't mean that you'll share DNA - this is only guaranteed for 1st and 2nd cousins.

Your 4G grandfather is 6 generations back, close to the practical limit of autosomal DNA. Cousins who share your 4G grandparents are 5th cousins, and if you refer to the table in my DNA Masterclass you'll see that the chance of two 5th cousins having a detectable DNA match is only 32%.

Of course, having tested with Ancestry you've been matched with tens of thousands of genetic cousins, but many of them won't have trees, or if they do have trees it might not go back sufficiently far.

Whilst this particular 'brick wall' is clearly one you're keen to knock down, you probably have 'brick walls' on ALL of your ancestral lines - I certainly do. My advice is to make the most of your DNA test by looking for clues that will knock down any of your 'brick walls', rather than putting all of your eggs in one basket.

But if you want to target a particular 'brick wall' the best way to do this is to collaborate with a cousin who shares that 'brick wall' and has already tested their DNA - any matches you share will be from the lines you share. The alternative is to persuade a cousin to test, but you will probably end up paying for their test. If you do go down that route chose a distant cousin - ideally one who shares only that particular line with you.

In general you'll get the best results from your DNA test by following the advice in the Masterclass - I've been using DNA for 8 years, and if there was a better way of doing it I'd tell you!

 

[Pauline]

To add to what Peter says, I would recommend also checking out the tree you have found to ensure the paper trail to your presumed shared ancestor(s) is correct. That she is a more experienced researcher than you and may have better access to resources isn't necessarily a guarantee that her tree is correct. Also, any researcher worth their salt will value another researcher checking through their work.

Since she has a will and other documents to support her tree, then it may be a good idea to ask if she would be willing to let you have copies of these, or at least, to let you have more details so that you can get your own copies.

As for taking out an Ancestry subscription, that is probably something only you can decide. I would find it hard to manage without subscriptions to both Ancestry and FMP but so much depends on where your family come from. Some resources are now at both sites, but many of those I rely on regularly are only at one - some at FMP and some at Ancestry.

 

[peter]

As for taking out an Ancestry subscription, that is probably something only you can decide. I would find it hard to manage without subscriptions to both Ancestry and FMP but so much depends on where your family come from. Some resources are now at both sites, but many of those I rely on regularly are only at one - some at FMP and some at Ancestry.

Also check whether you can get free access to Ancestry through your local library.

 

[SueMay]

Thank you Peter and Pauline, that is most encouraging. Yesterday I read and read the DNA Masterclass but will read it again!

The confusing part is that the 'cousin' says that her DNA should be showing a match. I have asked for a copy of the will and she has replied saying that they will work out how to send one to me, there is an image on Ancestry but the writing is so small and when you enlarge, it becomes blurred. I am always quite particular about checking documents and always make sure I find something that proves a link to people in the tree before adding anyone/anything which is why I am not 100% sure of the parents she has added to the 3 x great grandfather.

Taking out a subscription to both would be wonderful! Unfortunately a bit steep for me though. The nearest library (St Ives Cornwall) is not disabled friendly, even though it has a lift, it doesn't have parking outside, so a bit of a problem for me.

However, there may be a light at the end of the tunnel. She mentioned in her last message which line she is part of and, while lying in bed last night, I remembered seeing a DNA match for someone who looks like they are also part of that line. I will get in touch with them today and see what they have to say.

Many thanks and keep safe!

 

[peter]

the 'cousin' says that her DNA should be showing a match

Is she assuming that cousins always share DNA? It's a common misconception, so it wouldn't surprise me. (Perhaps she's the one who needs to read the Masterclass!)

The nearest library (St Ives Cornwall) is not disabled friendly, even though it has a lift, it doesn't have parking outside, so a bit of a problem for me.

Libraries are closed at the moment, so most are making their digital resources (including Findmypast and Ancestry if they have them) available to members at home - that's why I mentioned it. Using Ancestry Library Edition you might be limited in what you can do with DNA (if anything), but I think you would be able to look at public trees.

 

[SueMay]

Ah, maybe it's me who needs to read the Masterclass a few more times . I'm just suprised that another cousin, with what would be the same line, is at least showing a percentage but she isn't . Thanks, looks like I must close my laptop and do some reading (I've printed it out to study it all better ).

Checked out the library and it seems they are in the process of looking into it at the moment.

 

[SueMay]

On a side, found this website which helped make things a little clearer to me
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4
It gives the percentage relationship possibility.

 

[peter]

On a side, found this website which helped make things a little clearer to me
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4
It gives the percentage relationship possibility.

As a statistician I don't recommend using a relationship calculator as it's far too easy to over-interpret the results (Ancestry also provide probabilities and I don't recommend those either).

Calculated probabilities don't take into account all the facts - I've known people to make embarrassing errors because they put too much trust in a calculator and ignored other possibilities. As I said to someone earlier this week, if the most likely answer was always right, horse races would be won by the favourite every time (and nobody would ever win the lottery).

I suggest you use the coloured chart in the Masterclass - it is based on the same data as the calculator, but doesn't prejudice your thinking by giving probabilities.

 

[SueMay]

Thank you, good to have some sound advice.