Civil Partnerships

[DevonMeg]

As my brother in law has just entered a civil partnership with his long term partner and mother of his child I got wondering if there is a Register of CPs in the same way as Marriages. Does anyone know? Also do most Genealogy programs allow for CPs?

 

[At home in NZ]

do most Genealogy programs allow for CPs?

Although I am unsure of exactly what a civil partnership means in this instance, I do know Ancestry will allow you to choose Partner when setting a relationship. I sync Ancestry with FTM and that also comes through as Partner.

 

[DevonMeg]

A Civil Partnership is the equivalent of a marriage in the UK. It was originally only open to same-sex couples but following campaigns after same-sex couples were allowed to marry, it is now open to opposite-sex couples. Thus it is exactly the same as a marriage in all but name. I want to know how, in years to come, genealogists will be able to search for Civil Partnerships as we can for marriages on the GRO Index. Will there be/is there already a Register of Civil Partnerships? I'm not fussed about how to represent it in family tree software as I'm sure that is easily resolvable.

 

[canadianbeth]

Is that what we refer to as "common-law" here in Canada? Not married but living as though you are. Common-law couples are treated the same way as married when it comes to taxes and other benefits.

 

[DevonMeg]

No. quite different. This is the definition A civil partnership is a legal relationship which can be registered by two people who aren't related to each other. Civil partnerships are available to both same-sex couples and opposite-sex couples. Registering a civil partnership will give your relationship legal recognition.
Thus it is a legally recognized partnership in exactly the same way a marriage is and it has to be 'dissolved' in the same way as a divorce if it breaks up. So called common-law partnership does not exist in the UK although a lot of people think it does to their cost when things go wrong and they find they have no rights to children or homes or pensions.
I want to find out if they are Registered in the same way as marriages are as they are just as binding and will become more common in the future I suspect.

 

[At home in NZ]

I want to find out if they are Registered in the same way as marriages are as they are just as binding and will become more common in the future I suspect.

I have two suggestions, ask the GRO if they issue CP certs, or, take a look at this link.

 

[DevonMeg]

Yes. I can see how you do it but nobody seems to be telling us how these will be recorded for posterity in the way marriages are.

 

[At home in NZ]

If they issue certificates like marriage certs then I am sure they will be available in the future but only the GRO can provide a definitive answer.

 

[DevonMeg]

I don't know if they do but I assume so. I just wondered if anyone on here had any experience of them.
I have looked on the GRO website and this is how you order a copy of the Certificate but you need to know the details to be able to order it and I can see no mention of a Register.

1. How to obtain a civil partnership certificate If you are able to provide sufficient information to identify the civil partnership entry, including the addresses of both parties, (as shown in the entry) then you can choose to have a full certificate, which contains the addresses of both parties. If you are unable to provide the addresses of both parties, you can obtain an extract of the entry, which will not show the addresses. 2. Obtaining a full certificate without providing the addresses of both civil partners A certified copy of the entry can only be issued when you have correctly stated the full address of both civil partners (as shown in the entry). If you are unable to provide this information, you may apply to the Registrar General, stating your reasons for requesting a full certificate, why the addresses are not known and explaining why a certificate showing the addresses is needed. If he considers it appropriate to do so, the Registrar General will authorise the issue of a full certificate.
You should apply in writing to: General Register Office PO Box 2 Southport Merseyside PR8 2HH

 

[David47]

The GRO certificate ordering website for England and Wales
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/app_select.asp
has an option to order the certificate for a civil partnership.
The last time that I went to the British Library there were fiche of the indexes to civil partnerships together with those for BMD.
So esssentially the same as for marriages.

 

[DevonMeg]

Thanks. I could see how to order a certificate if you knew one existed and when, but I wanted to know if in years to come there will be indexes in the same way as there are for all the other types of official activities overseen by the GRO. It looks like there will but it is too soon for the indexes to be available online.

 

[peter]

Is that what we refer to as "common-law" here in Canada? Not married but living as though you are. Common-law couples are treated the same way as married when it comes to taxes and other benefits.

Common law marriage was a frequently used term when I was younger, and is still used occasionally, but in fact it was based on a misunderstanding. See this newsletter article.

 

[At home in NZ]

Is that what we refer to as "common-law" here in Canada? Not married but living as though you are. Common-law couples are treated the same way as married when it comes to taxes and other benefits.

My partner and I are in a 'de facto relationship' here in NZ which seems to be exactly the same. De facto is treated exactly the same as marriage when it comes to honouring wills and at separation, However, there is a three year rule for division of property.
This legal article explains it, for those who are interested.

 

[jorghes]

My partner and I are in a 'de facto relationship' here in NZ which seems to be exactly the same. De facto is treated exactly the same as marriage when it comes to honouring wills and at separation, However, there is a three year rule for division of property.
This legal article explains it, for those who are interested.

Australia has "de-facto" as well... but you don't get a certificate with it! (i.e. De-facto partnerships do not require any kind of ceremony etc or registration.)

You can find the Australian definition here - and in Australia you can be married to one person (and presumably separated) but in a de-facto relationship with another...

 

[At home in NZ]

Australia has "de-facto" as well... but you don't get a certificate with it!

We don't get a cert either, it's not celebrated in any way you just move in together.
Once a married couple split they are legally separated, no cert available and no legal requirement to tell anybody but it's wise to write the date down.
Once separated we are free to live with another person but cannot get married again until we are divorced and divorce can happen two years from legal separation date. Being legally separated for two years is the only requirement for a divorce.

 

[canadianbeth]

Common-law is still used here, at least for tax purposes. There are six choices on the tax form - married, living common-law, widowed, divorced, separated and single. Married and common-law income is totalled for some benefits like the child benefit and GST credits. Otherwise, it is just as jorghes and athome have said.

 

[At home in NZ]

There are six choices on the tax form

Tax form, what's that? I haven't completed one since the 2011/2012 tax year.
Individuals here in NZ don't have to complete tax forms unless earning/receiving income as a 'secondary stream', it's all automated and if you owe more than a certain amount you get a bill.

 

[canadianbeth]

r

Wow, everyone here has to file our taxes every year. We get information slips by the end of February and have to file by the end of April. I do ours online, using TurboTax, and also do taxes for several friends in the community who do not have computers or do not want to do it themselves. Until the past couple of years I also had business income selling Avon, so was able to deduct a lot of my in-home expenses. Social benefits like the GST and carbon tax credit, Senior's Benefits, etc., are all based on our net income.

 

[At home in NZ]

Social benefits like the GST and carbon tax credit, Senior's Benefits, etc., are all based on our net income.

We pay GST on all goods and services, businesses can claim it back from the government but individuals can't. Please don't ask me to explain, I don't fully understand it, don't need to either.

We don't have a carbon tax credit. When we reach the age of 65 we get 'National Superannuation' which is just a fancy name for old age pension. The amount is dependent on whether you are single, married etc. My partner and I get the married couple's amount, he gets the same amount as I do. We can earn as much as we are able to without the Superannuation being affected, that is where the tax man comes in as your income is treated as secondary income and taxed at a higher rate than if it was your sole income. However, as taxation is automated you only need to complete a return if you have spasmodic income such as dividends from shares and it is over a certain amount.

 

[peter]

We pay GST on all goods and services, businesses can claim it back from the government but individuals can't. Please don't ask me to explain, I don't fully understand it, don't need to either.

I imagine it's a bit like VAT in Europe. Businesses with a turnover above a certain level have to charge VAT, but they can deduct VAT they pay to their suppliers.

Before that we had purchase tax, which was only invoiced to the end customer. I've long forgotten what the pros and cons of the two systems are.