Asylum records

[peter]

I have a doubt about the signing on 29th August by M A Grounsell if Maria was still in hospital - who signed?

She did, when the registrar came to the maternity hospital. If you are still doubtful get a copy of the local birth register entry and compare it with previous examples of Maria's signature.

I have checked Lunacy Patients at Ancestry also the LMA and TNA and anything else I could locate.
As an aside James's daughters Emily b1850 (grousell) and Ellen Ann b1851 (gronsell) have not been able to locate their deaths or burials, neither was around for the 1861 census it must be something about the name Grounsell!

Many burials from that era are difficult to find, and it's not unusual for people to be missing from the census, or simply hard to find because they're not with their parents. Also consider the possibility that they emigrated, or were with their mother, who had also remarried.

 

[Humpty]

Thank you for your help, think I have explored all options, this one remains a mystery. Humpty

 

[Pauline]

One thing that seems a bit odd to me is that two of James' children with mmn Pledger (Charles 1841 & Herbert 1848) have the middle name Groves. And at the marriage of James to Mary Ann Brown in 1858, Mary Ann (then a widow) gives her father as William Groves.

Is this just a coincidence or is something else going on here?

 

[Humpty]

Don't know, James on the birth certificate for his son Henry b1846 gives his name as James Groves Grounsell, as James was born in Mid Lavant in 1815 and Mary Ann Brown nee Groves gives her birth as Chichester not far distant I have tried to find a connection between the Grounsell and Groves families to no avail. James was a tailor I did find a Groves who was a tailor but no connection that I was able to find. I have the Grounsells going back to Stoughton, Sussex c1700 but no connection to Groves.

James also signed himself J G Groundsell on the birth registration of Henry. Humpty

 

[Pauline]

Have you checked out wills? There is an Administration (with Will) for an Ann Pledger in 1872, who looks like she might be Maria's mother. If so, this may clarify if Maria was then still alive or not.

Edit: And a corresponding entry in the Death Duty Register index. And an earlier entry there indicates there was a PCC Admon for her father, though that may not help much.

 

[peter]

James on the birth certificate for his son Henry b1846 gives his name as James Groves Grounsell

It's not only interesting that James added the middle name Groves when registering the birth of Henry, but also that he was the one to register the birth. The father of a child can only register a birth if he is married to the mother - or says he is.

I have tried to find a connection between the Grounsell and Groves families to no avail

I must admit my initial thought on reading Pauline's email was that any connection could be on the Pledger side, because it's not unusual for a man to marry two women who are sisters or cousins. But whether Mary Ann is a relative of James or Maria, if Maria had long-term mental health issues Mary Ann could have been helping out with the children for many years - I have an example of this in my own tree (although in this the nurse wasn't related and they didn't end up marrying).

When did Mary Ann's first husband die? I'm wondering whether the marriage between James and Mary Ann was delayed not because of Maria, but because Mary Ann's husband was still alive.

Solving this mystery might involve obtaining local birth certificates for some or all the children (but before you do order them, make sure that the register office will provide facsimiles of the register entries - not all can). You may recall that a couple of years ago I published a birth certificate which showed that the mother of the child was the husband's wife, whereas in reality it was his mistress. Could this be another example?