A Children Status Report

[Tim]

I have an idea for a new report, but I don't want to ask for it yet as I might be the only person it could benefit.

So let me start at the beginning. On the 1911 Census it gives a great piece of information. Which is this


I have now recorded this detail in my FHS by creating a Custom Fact Called "Children Status".
This creates a nice visual record on the person that looks like this,

This information is very useful, because it can now make you look for other family members. In this case I had 10 children, but now I've used the parents names to search for children I have found one other.

So my first suggestion/tip is that other people should start to create this Fact and record these details, in this format. This for FTM but you can create custom Facts in most every FHS. You need to make sure you keep to the format because when there are a few of us using this fact, then Alexander may write a report for us!



So, the idea of the report is to identify parents and their children, and using the Children Status Fact and the 1911 census details, tell us how many we have found, how many are missing, and in this case could possibly suggest the range in which we should look (the father died in 1887).



So before we can ask for this report, I'd like people to start recording the Children Status Fact, and then if they can post here that they are, and when we get a few takers, we can ask Alexander what he thinks.

 

[Doreen]

I'm liking this idea, Tim, and would definitely use the Children Status Fact/Report.

 

[Alexander Bisset]

Is this a shared fact ie: it's recorded against a family rather than against an individual? The report will be really difficult if it's against and individual as I couldn't really tell which family it might be if there are multiple ones.

 

[emjay]

Interesting idea Tim. When I started entering families via the census, in my excitement I was not reading the census forms thoroughly. As I have mentioned before,I always download the original images which I browse from time to time and discover and absorb some interesting facts. This is when I am sometimes shocked in some cases to see the number of children that have died from the featured family. Another mistake I made in earlier days of my research,was assuming that the family as shown on the 1911 census was the complete family, then coming across more children during later bmd searches.

 

[Bryman]

It would have to be a fact against the marriage rather than an individual as the 1911 census form specifically requires counts of children for the current marriage. Otherwise, it could get very confusing where there have been children resulting from several marriages of both partners.

That then poses the question of what should be done when one of the partners dies/divorces before the census. Were children numbers still reported in the census even though the marriage no longer existed?

What format of record(s) would be expected in the Gedcom file? I created a custom fact for the marriage in GenoPro but that does not get included automatically in the generated Gedcom file. Appropriate records would only get included after program changes are implemented. I have already requested a change in mid-April to allow users to link in their own processing without modifying released code but there has been no reply so far.

While investigating this suggestion of Tim's, I discovered the existence of a Source tab for Families in GenoPro and and am now wondering if census details should be recorded there in place of or in addition to that for individuals.

 

[Tim]

Is this a shared fact ie: it's recorded against a family rather than against an individual? The report will be really difficult if it's against and individual as I couldn't really tell which family it might be if there are multiple ones.

I don't have it as a shared fact currently, but I guess there is no real reason why it couldn't be. I do have a number of cases where a spouse has died, but the details have still been provided, in deed my example above is exactly that issue.

 

[Alexander Bisset]

The GEDCOM standard has the following standard tag:

COUNT_OF_CHILDREN:= {Size=1:3}
The known number of children of this individual from all marriages or, if subordinate to a family record, the reported number of children known to belong to this family, regardless of whether the associated children are represented in the corresponding structure. This is not necessarily the count of children listed in a family structure.

So as you can see they suggest if recorded against an individual it should be ALL children for that person and if against a family it's the children for that family whether or not they all yet appear in the family listed. However this fact type is only meant for a single numerical value not three values with text so a custom type is probably better.

 

[Tim]

Yes, I'd heard about the count_of_children fact but can't think of a nice way of using it.

 

[Bryman]

Looking at the 1911 census form, it does state that the count of children should be given for the current marriage of any married women (not their spouse) so presumably any Child Status fact could be recorded for the female individual.

 

[Tim]

True, it's recorded against the female, but it is a statement about the current marriage. As such, I now agree with Alexander that it should be a shared fact.
Also this will make it easier when Alexander has to create a report for us

 

[Liberty]

True, it's recorded against the female, but it is a statement about the current marriage.

I do have instances (though don't ask me for chapter and verse i.e.census reference) where a widower has reported 'number of children'. Just to say, don't restrict the report to women only.

Actually, I have one instance where the wife has 2 children with her and reports that she has 4, with 3 living, while her husband is somewhere else with one child, also reporting 4, with 3 living. I am often quite glad that there's always someone who doesn't follow the instructions on the form.

 

[Tim]

I am often quite glad that there's always someone who doesn't follow the instructions on the form.

Yes, me too. Even though the enumerator puts a line through it, the data can still be read. In fact I had one relation put down the stats for his 1st marriage against himself, and the stats for his current wife against her, which was very helpful.

 

[Tim]

I don't have it as a shared fact currently, but I guess there is no real reason why it couldn't be. I do have a number of cases where a spouse has died, but the details have still been provided, in deed my example above is exactly that issue.

All my Children Status Facts have now been changed to shared facts. Everything is looking rosey.

 

[Tim]

I should point out that Alexander has implemented this report and it's looking pretty good.

Anyone else using it yet?

 

[Doreen]

Tim or Alexander, could you please set out (again) or point me to the format for entering the Children Status Facts? I'm using Roots Magic and I think I've missed something in my entries

 

[Alexander Bisset]

There are instructions for adding a Lost Cousins fact to Roots Magic on the documentation tab. The difference is it should be a Family fact and its name should be Children Status.

Once you start entering data it should be of the format:

Total x, Alive y, Dead z

If you have data you know is different from what it should be eg: head of household wrote the wrong thing or misunderstood the form. Then you can add some text and as long as it includes the word ignore then it will be ignored from the exception reports.

eg: you could write:

Total 5, Alive 3, Dead 2. John Smith included children from both his marriages - Ignore

That would then mean it was counted as having a Children status for the report that shows which 1911 census entries are missing one. However it would be excluded from the report that shows mismatched children numbers vs Children status counts.

 

[Doreen]

There are instructions for adding a Lost Cousins fact to Roots Magic on the documentation tab. The difference is it should be a Family fact and its name should be Children Status.

Thanks, Alexander. Took me a bit of looking, but it appears that the detail wording must be very specific, is that correct? e.g. you indicate Total 5, Alive 3, Dead 2; however, I had entered mine using the term "Living" as in the census form (5 Total, 3 Living, 2 Dead) - once I change it to 'Alive' it disappears from my Missing Children Status Report. The Children Status Report is a great additional feature - thanks for adding it!

 

[Tim]

Glad you're liking it Doreen, it's just one of many useful reports that have recently been added.

 

[Alexander Bisset]

Thanks, Alexander. Took me a bit of looking, but it appears that the detail wording must be very specific, is that correct? e.g. you indicate Total 5, Alive 3, Dead 2; however, I had entered mine using the term "Living" as in the census form (5 Total, 3 Living, 2 Dead) - once I change it to 'Alive' it disappears from my Missing Children Status Report. The Children Status Report is a great additional feature - thanks for adding it!

Thanks for pointing that out. I can add Living as a variant text. It will also allow combinations of colons : and commas, as well as allowing writing it the other way round. ie: 4 Total, 2 Alive, 2 Dead

 

[Tim]

I only chose Alive as it was shorter to write then Living.