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Christened differently to parents' wishes

Bob Spiers

Bob Spiers

LostCousins Superstar
This is a true story right out of my family tree, but I have only just learned how it came about that someone shown as Eileen Mary (aka Jose Irene) was so called. Here is the story.

The parents of the child wished her to be christened Jose Irene and when this news was broken to the grandfather of the child he was quite upset and questioned of his son (the father of the child) why she could not be given one of the family names for girls, like Mary, Ellen or Eileen.

Both parents stood firm; she was to be christened Jose Irene but the only problem was that the child's grandfather was a Vicar and it would be he officiating at the Christening. However neither parent thought he would go against their wishes. How wrong could they be?:(

Come the big day with family present and the Vicar officiating in his own church he loudly and clearly announced he was christening the child Eileen Mary and would not listen to any protestation from the parents or godparents.

So thereafter she was known in official documents as Eileen Mary, but to the family (other than the paternal Grandparents) as Jose Irene, or plain Jose. I learned all this from Jose's daughter -herself given Jose as a first name, but to avoid confusion with her mother uses her second name Lynn - who lives in Australia with her mother who is now in her 90th year.

If there is a moral to the story it is if there is a clergyman in the family find someone else to christen your child.
 
Wow! what an amazing story!
To me it raises an interesting point - how does your 'proper' (legal) name relate to your baptismal name? If the baby had already been registered as Jose Irene, the official, civil authorities would presumably regard that as her name. The church might think her to be Eileen Mary, but legally she would be Jose Irene. Was she, perhaps, not registered at the time she was christened? If so, can imagine that the parents would prefer not to escalate a family disagreement by registering her with their chosen (but non-baptismal) names.

On a less dramatic note, I have several people on the comparatively recent bits of my tree who seem to have been known by completely different names from their official ones. This isn't much problem when e.g it is my mother's Cousin Jo, who she knew to be Beryl Joyce. However, I have a couple of cases where this applies to women marrying into the family, where we didn't have the background knowledge. My father's Aunt Pat turned out to be Charlotte Annie, and his Aunt Cissie was Elizabeth. I was able to identify these women, but it does raise a question as to whether you could track down their equivalents further back in time. I mean, I could have spent along time trying to find someone with my great uncles' names marrying a Pat, Patricia or Patience in one case, or a Cissie, Cicely or Cecilia in the other. Maybe some of the holes in my family history are because I am looking for the wrong name.....
 
Liberty said:
Wow! what an amazing story!
To me it raises an interesting point - how does your 'proper' (legal) name relate to your baptismal name? If the baby had already been registered as Jose Irene, the official, civil authorities would presumably regard that as her name. The church might think her to be Eileen Mary, but legally she would be Jose Irene. Was she, perhaps, not registered at the time she was christened? If so, can imagine that the parents would prefer not to escalate a family disagreement by registering her with their chosen (but non-baptismal) names.
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Yes as you say an interesting point and one I had not gleaned from my email communications with Lynn. She confirms that her mother was indeed registered as Jose Irene so you are right that was her 'legal' Civil name. However when she married she was shown as Eileen Mary on the Certificate. (I believe her grandfather had passed on by this time, but her baptismal name clearly ruled for the religious service). Apparently all the paternal family side refer to her as Eileen and the maternal as Jose and explains the confusion in recording her name in the Family Tree.
 
Bob Spiers said:
... her mother was indeed registered as Jose Irene so you are right that was her 'legal' Civil name. However when she married she was shown as Eileen Mary on the Certificate. ..
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Coo- er , tangled web.
It makes sense (sort of) She was welcomed into the church as Eileen Mary, so would be confirmed and married (in church) by that name. Since. presumably, the Registrars of BMDs just accept the certificate issued by the officiating clergyman, that explains why she is Eileen Mary on her marriage certificate. At a guess, if she had had a civil wedding, the registrar would have only been concerned with the name on her birth certificate, and she would have had a marriage cert in the name of Jose Irene.
Good thing she never fell foul of the law, or they would have been mighty suspicious about her having an alias!
 
As an amusing aside but on the topic of first names, I was reading to my wife an amusing article from my latest copy of ‘The Oldie’ magazine, written by a lady explaining how her elderly mother could never accept modern day children’s names and would retort when hearing of one such, “what sort of name is that for a child”. It didn’t help that her mother was also hard of hearing, so when a told a child was named Esther remarked ‘fancy naming a child after a supermarket’ (believing she heard Asda).

I am relating this because during the part where I read out...‘what sort of name is that for a child’... my wife said ‘that’s what you say every time there is a new addition within our family circle’. My look of incredulity was then rewarded with a chapter and verse of names which she said had caused such a remark.

What about Skye & Saphire? Then there are the twins Madison & Paige and N’s family comprising Shane and daughters Amber, Jade & Tegan! You even found Riley hard to accept. The only one of recent times of which you approved was Eve and Max, but even so had a field day when learning their middle names were Celeste & Geofferson. (I should perhaps explain my comments were uttered ‘in-house’ and not to the joyous parents who had bequeathed the names).

She concluded by suggesting my stance on modern names likely stemmed from researching family history where everyone had good old fashioned names like: William, Edward, Henry or Elizabeth, Mary, Jane. “You even have a ‘thing’ about complicated (or foreign) surnames; double barrelled or hyphenated names, remarking 'what's wrong with plain John Smith'? (That most definitely is tongue in cheek because my heart sinks when I have to research such a name. Give me Marmaduke Postlethwaite any day):)

At this point (thankfully) she rested her case, as now do I. Am I alone in all this?
 
Liberty said:
Coo- er , tangled web.
Good thing she never fell foul of the law, or they would have been mighty suspicious about her having an alias!
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Particularly tiresome throughout he life apparently, such as when applying for a passport (in the UK); and Oz immigration questions which (as Lynn says) were endless. All thanks to the Vicar!
 
Bob, you are not alone. Mykayla, Shivaun and Neve are names I have recently seen in birth announcements:(. Though I would have to say that Xzanthia would have to be the worst. Having had to spell my given name (Marjorie/Margaret??) all my life I have a real feeling for these poor children. And don't get me started on hyphenated surnames......
 
Margery said:
Bob, you are not alone. Mykayla, Shivaun and Neve are names I have recently seen in birth announcements......
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Reminds me - many years ago, I asked an Irish colleague how you pronounced the name Niamh (as I had only seen it written down). She replied, 'Neve - the 'mh'is a 'v' sound - like in my name'. To which I had to respond, 'But there isn't an 'mh' in your name, Siobhan'.
 
I must admit I did chuckle when I read Bob's comments and I, too, found it hard to keep a straight face (or make a rash thoughtless comment) when presented with ideas from my son about their choice of baby's name. It did provide me with hours of amusement though, because I ended up flicking through one of the many 'baby name' books. To be honest I don't think I ever worried about how my children would feel about their names as they grew up, and fortunate for them I picked rather traditional names. The only comment my younger son ever made was why hadn't we thought what his initials would look like, being M and R, causing the odd random envelope and letter to be addressed to Mr Mr but hey ho! o_O He is lucky, as he could have been called Charlotte Rose which, upon us telling him that, said it sound like a huge sailing ship!
All children are at the mercy of their parents pleasure for their birth names but I have read in the Independent newspaper today about one enterprising couple who have decided to let the'internet' chose their unborn daughter's name. It's rather interesting to read the result so far.
 
Carla said:
All children are at the mercy of their parents pleasure for their birth names but I have read in the Independent newspaper today about one enterprising couple who have decided to let the'internet' chose their unborn daughter's name. It's rather interesting to read the result so far.
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When a friend of mine was expecting her second baby they asked their two-year-old what she thought would be a good name. The little girl replied promptly 'Big Ears Nigel'. In the event the baby was named Kay.
 
I don't think my daughter Gwendoline has ever forgiven me and my first wife for bestowing the middle name of Edith. Mind you she was not over fond of her full name and even queried why not Gwendolyn? (I respond by saying that is how we found it spelt in a book of baby names) For all that she has grown content to being called Gwen but nothing will make her like her middle name, despite there being a good reason for its adoption at the time.

A few years before we courted my future wife's sister (named Edith) had been tragically killed in a road accident whilst she was riding a bike. My wife had been riding alongside and escaped injury. The tragedy weighed heavy with her parents and the family and within the village where they lived. So some years later when we had our first child, a baby girl, after deciding on a first name, I was asked - and agreed - to allow my daughter to have Edith as a middle name.

My first wife died some years ago so I am left to respond on the infrequent occasions the matter is brought up. I tell her that as she is now a mother with two children of her own, perhaps one day she will be called to reckoning by her children, and they by their children, as to why such and such a name was chosen. It is at the whim of the parent, so live with it! After all she could have been called Trixie Bell which always bring forth a smile:)
 
Margery said:
Bob, you are not alone.......
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Although having been registered with only one forename ‘Jennifer’ I was baptised as ‘Jennifer Rose’, and since then have often answered to ‘Jennifer not-legally Rose’!

The name ‘Rose’ has been handed down through most generations of my maternal line and the earliest reference I have found in a direct line of descent is to John ROSE, a 16th century cutler living on the lands of Beauchief Abbey, Derbyshire where the Monastery controlled iron smelting . And if anyone says to me again “ Jennifer Rose sat on a pin, Jennifer Rose” I’ll scream!
 
Tim said:
Why did you sit on a pin? o_O
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Thanks, boys! Hahaha. I got used to jests as I also grew up with the catch-phrase made popular in the 50s and 60s by Ted Ray’s radio programme ‘Ray’s a Laugh’ – “What’s your name?” Answer: “Jen-ni-fer”.

Perhaps in the future we’ll just be registered with an informal changeable name, individual barcode and micro chipped?

And, no Tim, you cannot be Tim 007! ;)

On a serious note, our conversations all highlight the importance for those researching their oral family history to ask and note all possible alternative(s) or nickname(s) of family members and their peers, even if it doesn’t help, just to have that knowledge is great .......
 
My husband's aunt Mavis, a centenarian and the oldest of eight children, was registered and baptised Ivy Isabel, named after her mother. This information was only recently discovered and we asked aunt Mavis where her name came from and she said that she chose it as it was the name her favourite school teacher. This is rather strange as you would think that other members of the family, particularly older ones, would refer to her as Ivy even if she preferred Mavis.
Fast forward 25 years and grandmother has child No. 8, a girl and, you guessed it - she was also named Ivy Isabel. So there are 2 siblings, both alive and with the same names.
Ivy Jnr. had no idea that her sister, Mavis, was really Ivy until Mavis received a community award with her correct, baptismal name on it.
 
I can sort of understand the logic. Grandmother obviously liked the name Ivy Isabel, but 1st child never used it and everyone called her Mavis. So 25 years later, she elected to use it again :)

In my tree I have someone who everyone called Boy, his real name was Herbert. Rumour has it his parents were so pleased to have a boy after so many girls :)
 
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