How to find the maiden name of a woman pre 1837 in England?

[VTinOZ]

Hi Everyone,
I'm trying to trace ancestors of a family who emigrated from Sussex to Australia in 1838. Particularly the husband's parents. I can't find a parish record of his birth/baptism to see parents' names.
Immigration records do give a Mother's name but it is not the same surname as the son who emigrated.
One possibility is that the Mother was widowed & remarried before her son emigrated & so her surname would be different.
Another is that her son was born after his Mother was widowed but before she remarried.
If that was the case would a parish record for his birth/baptism be in her deceased husband's surname without showing a Father's name & would it refer to his Mother as a widow or as a single woman?
Or is it possible that no parish record exists at all?

Hoping for some suggestions of how to proceed from those familiar with English records or is this a full stop to tracing the ancestors of this family.

 

[Pauline]

One of Peter's masterclasses is on the subject of finding vital records before 1837 so, if you haven't already, I suggest you check that out.

Your question about what a baptism record might show for the child of a widow will depend on whether the baptism was before or after 1813 when the format changed. However, even after 1813 the details given may vary from parish to parish. As a minimum, by this sort of date, you should get the full name of the child and the parents' names and surnames, and after 1813 the father's occupation. If the child was illegitimate, then generally only the mother's name will be given, with her current surname, but the record may also specify that the child was illegitimate (or base, bastard etc) and sometimes single woman or widow will be added after the mother's name - for records after 1813 this may be in the occupation column.

Occasionally the name of a reputed father will be given when a child is illegitimate, but even when this was generally known, his name was not always added to the record. If his name has been added, then any transcription might be indexed under his surname or under the mother's surname, so you need to keep that in mind if you are searching indexes rather than browsing registers.

It is also perfectly possible that there is no record of a baptism for the person concerned - he may not have been baptised, or the record may not have survived. You'll need to check non-conformist as well as parish records, and check for possible marriages of the mother as well as for baptisms.

 

[Stuart]

To some extent, exactly what question was attached to the immigration record data could be important: for example would the father's name only be absent if he said he didn't know; was the mother's maiden name expected or not? But then answers given do not always match the question exactly, so caution is called for.

It is worth considering cases where the son's name changed: in modern terms adoption or a step-family. That is most likely if the child is orphaned, or illegitimate, or both - do you know if the mother was alive at this date?

An unmarried mother would often give her child to her parents to raise so she could work, which would not give a change of surname unless something else happened. For example, if she married another man - my ancestor Eliza Davey née Garnham had a son with another man who was raised by her parents as William Garnham. To add to the confusion, while he was baptised as Garnham his registered birth was indexed as William Garnham Hewitt. And she was widowed and remarried quite young, becoming Eliza Meadows.

If her parents could not take the child, a married sister with a sympathetic husband (or a lack of children) might. Adoption at an early age was more likely to result in a surname change, and being orphaned perhaps more so. If the mother was never going to come back and even visit, a permanent change would make more sense.

Illegitimacy suggests another possibility: a father who could not be named officially for reasons of status and propriety. So the son might be happy to use that surname, but not to actually name his father as such.

And don't forget that some people reject their childhood name - for example a stepson who falls out with his stepfather and reverts to his mother's name. All the possibilities of a mother remarrying can be added to this (and others mentioned here) too.

Finally, some people change their names for no visible reason, and not always for devious reasons. I have a Burrell Faux who renames himself William Foulger, and his son Burrell Faux becomes Thomas Foulger. Both revert in some records to Burrell Faux (with families following suit), and clearly they were not really trying to deceive everyone.

 

[VTinOZ]

Thank you Pauline & Stuart for your information.
Pauline, I had read & have re-read Peter's Masterclass & have followed each link & most suggestions there that I am able to access. The baptism I need, if there is one, would be between 1815 & 1819. If nothing else I am learning more about English records which may help in the future.
Stuart, the questions asked printed on the immigration records were Name (Husband), Occupation, Religion, Age, Native Place, Father, Mother. Then the same for the wife. Followed by Children Name & Age & if landed or died on voyage. Then Ship & Date of Arrival & Brought out by...

In the specific case I'm searching there is no Father stated. The Mother's Name is her 2nd married Surname, having remarried before her son emigrated. That marriage cert states 'Widow', which indicates to me that she had been married, & is the same surname as her son used when he emigrated. I can't find a baptism for the son under that surname, & allowing for spellings, so perhaps the son was born between marriages under his Mother's Maiden name, or perhaps under some totally different name which I think would make finding it a remote possibility.

My difficulty is in not knowing the Mother's Maiden Name to search for her 1st marriage or for a baptism for her son under that name.
I haven't found a death for a man with the wanted surname that was married to a woman with the known first name.
I've searched a 30 year range, which is probably more than is sensible, the parish & then the county which all records state & then further afield.

Not sure what to do next other than keep searching.

 

[peter]

The baptism I need, if there is one, would be between 1815 & 1819

Not necessarily - some children were baptised as teenagers, and some were baptised on the same day as their first child.

perhaps the son was born between marriages under his Mother's Maiden name

I doubt a woman would revert to her maiden name after her husband died - it would be disrespectful. But perhaps she wasn't really a widow.

This mystery ancestor is within reach of DNA, and that's often the best way to proceed in a case like this where you can't be sure what surname to look for.

 

[VTinOZ]

Thanks Peter,
I had considered an older age baptism & so have searched to 1838, the year of emigration.
I hadn't considered that the mother wasn't a widow. Maybe because all records indicate the same small village & church so I didn't think fibbing would be in play.
DNA has confirmed the son by direct descent & his given surname in the same county.
Hopefully it may eventually lead to his Maternal line.
Meanwhile I'll keep searching.

 

[peter]

DNA has confirmed the son by direct descent & his given surname in the same county.
Hopefully it may eventually lead to his Maternal line.

Surely you don't know whether the DNA connections are through his mother or his father? It depends whose surname he took, and that presumably depends on whether his mother was really a widow.

I hadn't considered that the mother wasn't a widow. Maybe because all records indicate the same small village & church so I didn't think fibbing would be in play.

Those are the records you've found. But there are lots of records you haven't found, and that may because they're in a different parish or even a different county.

The chances are you have just as many DNA matches on the other side of his tree - they're just not as easy to spot because you don't know what surname to look for. This is one of those cases where searching your matches' trees by birthplace might help.