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The Morris men and women of Shropshire
- Thread starter peter
- Start date
It takes about 5 hours to send them out. Members who haven't logged in for many years may have to wait longer.
Yours should arrive in the next 30 minutes - according to my records it's about 3 months since you last logged in.
There is a place called Kenton in Devon - Kenton is a village and civil parish located near Exeter, the county town of Devon, England. It has one restaurant, a hairdresser, a primary school, a mediaeval church and is near Powderham Castle. The centre of the village was rebuilt in brick immediately after a fire on 16 April 1856 which destroyed 24 dwellings. Wikipedia
I haven’t yet found a baptism in Kenton for Sarah Hayden (plus similar sounding surnames, but will keep looking.
Courtesy of FindMyPast.co.uk - although may not be relevant
Jane Haydon born 13 Feb 1801 bap 8 Mar 1801 at Kenton to John & Jane
Sarah Harden born 4 Jun 1799 bap 16 Jun 1799 at Ottery St Mary (17 miles from Kenton) to James & Elizabeth
Sarah Hayman bap 11 Oct 1801 at Whimple (16 miles from Kenton) to Henry & Mary
Other than the above, I looked through Kenton All Saints baptisms & burials 1787-1813 and interestingly found a baptism in 1789 which may be food for thought
Feb 4 Sarah Hayton dr of Will. Alward Ash & Sarah his wife
familysearch.org also have baptisms for Sarah Haydon in the early 1800s around the Exeter area, such as Tiverton, Cheriton Bishop, Crediton
not sure if all this helps or hinders
I would like to help with this but first I would like to know how they know for sure that their John Morris of Norbury is the one who was baptised at Ellesmere and the one who got married at Highley. None of those places are particularly close to each other. If it comes from the handwritten records which were passed down to them, are those from something like a family Bible, or from a previous researcher in the family? My Granny passed on her research of one of our family lines to me but sadly it turned out to be all wrong.
Further to Margaret's comment above, there is a baptism at Chudleigh, 8 miles from Kenton, of Sally Hydon born 12 july 1804, baptised 29 August to Edward and Sarah - there seem to be several Hydons at Kenton in later years, but no obvious marriages in devon, and the death of a Sarah Hydon in 1848 registered Newton Abbot was for someone in their 80s.(possibly her mother?) https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=BMD/D/1848/4/AZ/000347/147&expand=true
Robert1950
New Member
As I live locally, I have been looking for the properties. Upper Bent Farm is I believe at what3words location, upgrading.amuses.educates
It doesn't appear to be named on modern maps but I found an historic listed building notification at: https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1054612?section=official-list-entry
The Crown Inn at Wentnor is still a thriving pub and has its own website. I will happily visit and report on the ale!
The More Arms Inn at More isn't marked on any maps I have looked at. Pubs and inns often indicated by the legend, PH. More looks to be a small hamlet and I will go and scout around. It's possible that it was just an ale house in someone's front room. There used to be plenty of them around. Clun, where I live, reputedly had 17 pubs and ale houses at one time for a population of less than 1000 people, even in its heyday from 15th -19th century when it was the centre of the sheep trade between England & Wales. Current population 550 and as such is the smallest town in Shropshire!
I agree with someone above about Keinton being most likely Kenton nr. Exeter. It is only 13 miles distant to Tedburn St. Mary. My phone is being repaired at present, when it's returned I'll go out and take some photos for you.
There are a number of Morris's in the area, who may well be your cousins. Have you traced the Morris line forward?
It doesn't appear to be named on modern maps but I found an historic listed building notification at: https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1054612?section=official-list-entry
The Crown Inn at Wentnor is still a thriving pub and has its own website. I will happily visit and report on the ale!
The More Arms Inn at More isn't marked on any maps I have looked at. Pubs and inns often indicated by the legend, PH. More looks to be a small hamlet and I will go and scout around. It's possible that it was just an ale house in someone's front room. There used to be plenty of them around. Clun, where I live, reputedly had 17 pubs and ale houses at one time for a population of less than 1000 people, even in its heyday from 15th -19th century when it was the centre of the sheep trade between England & Wales. Current population 550 and as such is the smallest town in Shropshire!
I agree with someone above about Keinton being most likely Kenton nr. Exeter. It is only 13 miles distant to Tedburn St. Mary. My phone is being repaired at present, when it's returned I'll go out and take some photos for you.
There are a number of Morris's in the area, who may well be your cousins. Have you traced the Morris line forward?
Spedders
Genealogy in the Sunshine 2015
One issue to remember from old census returns is that the people who went around the houses taking the returns were local, and the people giving their oral returns were also local, and both talked in the local dialect. I have found several instances where a name in the census makes no sense until you speak it in the local dialect. That is particular for the Tyne Wear Tees area, but also for areas of East London.
Pauline
LostCousins Megastar
When looking at families in the 17th and 18th centuries, particularly with a common surname like Morris (and it's many variant spellings) it can be a nigh on impossible task using parish register information only. As KateR points out in #7, the places mentioned are not particularly close to each other, and there are too many possibilities to home in on any one particular baptism, marriage or burial without some kind of corroborating evidence.
Gayle is in Australia, so is unlikely to be in a position to answer questions until late tonight (London time).
Pauline
LostCousins Megastar
That's OK, I gathered that, but by then I shall (hopefully) be fast asleep so not in a position to ask!
DeeD
New Member
Gayle wrote: "There is no such place as Keinton, nor any record of a birth for a Sarah Haydon in Devon, though I did find a Sally Haydon who was baptised at Tedburn St Mary in 1797. Sally is a pet form of Sarah, and Sarah Morris was shown as aged 60 when she died on 31/10/1857, which fits with a 1797 baptism."
The GENUKI page for Tedburn St Mary has a transcript for the 1821 Census. The household for Blackdown records a bonded servant called Sarah Haydon. She is in the right age range for a birth c1797 and there are no other likely candidates within Tedburn parish so it is possible that Sally and Sarah are the same person. She was also the only person by the name of Haydon.
Blackdown
George Hawkins 50-60 Yeoman
Ann Wife 40-50
Ann Daughter 5-10
George Son Under 5
John Son Under 5
Josiah Luscombe 30-40 Weekly Servant B
Sarah Haydon 20-30 Yearly Servant B
The baptism for Sally Haydon was on 30 April 1797 and she was the daughter of William and Elizabeth Haydon.
A search for a marriage of a William Haydon and an Elizabeth was not found within Tedburn St Mary but within a 5 mile radius there was an interesting one between a William Headon (which could sound like Heydon/Haydon in a regional dialect) and Elizabeth Lendon, at Colebrooke, on 28 May 1786. William was from Tedburn St Mary and Elizabeth was of Colebrooke.
Both Colebrooke and Tedburn St Mary are near Crediton, which is also called Kirton or Kerton. So is this actually referring to Keinton?
There are baptisms on Find My Past for children of a William and Elizabeth Haydon at Crediton - John 1789, Ann 1791, Ann 1792, and Samuel 1794. Also Mary in 1801 at Tedburn St Mary.
The GENUKI page for Tedburn St Mary has a transcript for the 1821 Census. The household for Blackdown records a bonded servant called Sarah Haydon. She is in the right age range for a birth c1797 and there are no other likely candidates within Tedburn parish so it is possible that Sally and Sarah are the same person. She was also the only person by the name of Haydon.
Blackdown
George Hawkins 50-60 Yeoman
Ann Wife 40-50
Ann Daughter 5-10
George Son Under 5
John Son Under 5
Josiah Luscombe 30-40 Weekly Servant B
Sarah Haydon 20-30 Yearly Servant B
The baptism for Sally Haydon was on 30 April 1797 and she was the daughter of William and Elizabeth Haydon.
A search for a marriage of a William Haydon and an Elizabeth was not found within Tedburn St Mary but within a 5 mile radius there was an interesting one between a William Headon (which could sound like Heydon/Haydon in a regional dialect) and Elizabeth Lendon, at Colebrooke, on 28 May 1786. William was from Tedburn St Mary and Elizabeth was of Colebrooke.
Both Colebrooke and Tedburn St Mary are near Crediton, which is also called Kirton or Kerton. So is this actually referring to Keinton?
There are baptisms on Find My Past for children of a William and Elizabeth Haydon at Crediton - John 1789, Ann 1791, Ann 1792, and Samuel 1794. Also Mary in 1801 at Tedburn St Mary.
Hi
Has anyone else noticed that John Morris who married at Highley in 1702 and died in Norbury in 1731 is born Ellesmere according to Gayle but there is a baptism at Norbury
John Morris 3 Feb 1678 to Thomas and Elinor Morris
Thomas married Elinor Phipps at Wentnor 20 Dec 1674 .She seems to have been baptised at Norbury 4.4.1647 d of Richard Phipps.
This was a second marriage for Thomas ,his first wife Alice buried 4.5.1672 with perhaps her daughter Alice the younger 29.4.1672
There are Wills at Hereford John Morris 1731 to an Alice Morris (Elizabeth died 1725 so perhaps a second wife)
Thomas Morris 1718 to a Rebecca estate £19(Rebecca was his daughter
Elinor Morris was buried 25 July 1706 so that would make sense
Richard Phipps of Norbury 1733 to Alice £9
Children for Thomas and Alice at Norbury Ann 2.3.1650 ,Mary 23.4.1653 ,Margaret 13.1.1657-8.10.1675 ,Rebecca 31.8.1659,Benjamin 28 Jan 1667 ,Thomas 17.5.1670
There is a marriage of a Thomas Morris to Alice Bowen 8.6.1641 but I think there may be two Thomas and Alice Morrises
Can anyone see a burial or another reason to discount the one in Norbury for the one in Ellesmere?
Has anyone else noticed that John Morris who married at Highley in 1702 and died in Norbury in 1731 is born Ellesmere according to Gayle but there is a baptism at Norbury
John Morris 3 Feb 1678 to Thomas and Elinor Morris
Thomas married Elinor Phipps at Wentnor 20 Dec 1674 .She seems to have been baptised at Norbury 4.4.1647 d of Richard Phipps.
This was a second marriage for Thomas ,his first wife Alice buried 4.5.1672 with perhaps her daughter Alice the younger 29.4.1672
There are Wills at Hereford John Morris 1731 to an Alice Morris (Elizabeth died 1725 so perhaps a second wife)
Thomas Morris 1718 to a Rebecca estate £19(Rebecca was his daughter
Elinor Morris was buried 25 July 1706 so that would make sense
Richard Phipps of Norbury 1733 to Alice £9
Children for Thomas and Alice at Norbury Ann 2.3.1650 ,Mary 23.4.1653 ,Margaret 13.1.1657-8.10.1675 ,Rebecca 31.8.1659,Benjamin 28 Jan 1667 ,Thomas 17.5.1670
There is a marriage of a Thomas Morris to Alice Bowen 8.6.1641 but I think there may be two Thomas and Alice Morrises
Can anyone see a burial or another reason to discount the one in Norbury for the one in Ellesmere?
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Here's a picture of Hardwick Hall Norbury
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hardwick_Hall_near_Norbury.jpg
It is a listed building
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hardwick_Hall_near_Norbury.jpg
It is a listed building
Pauline
LostCousins Megastar
Yes, see my post #13 above.
Thank you Margaret for the details about Kenton and for your careful research on Sarah Haydon. It is all very helpful.