LIVER AND BACON WITH OR WITHOUT ONIONS - THE AMBROSIA OF THE GODS

[canadianbeth]

Someone once told me that you can almost tell what village a person comes from in England by the way he speaks. Just how correct would he have been?

 

[peter]

Someone once told me that you can almost tell what village a person comes from in England by the way he speaks. Just how correct would he have been?

I don't know about villages, but in my youth it was easy to tell the difference between people from Dagenham and those from Ilford, even though they're next door. In many parts of the country (including Essex) there are projects which have recorded the local accents, though sadly I can't find any recordings of an Ilford accent.

 

[Tim]

This is what I thought Black over Will's mother was.

 

[Heather]

Someone once told me that you can almost tell what village a person comes from in England by the way he speaks. Just how correct would he have been?

That is very true, I was born and raised in Darwen, Lancashire a town between Bolton and Blackburn where my husband is from, we did pronounce several things differently, but I cannot think of any examples now, having lived in Australia since 1977.

 

[At home in NZ]

Mind you I don't win on all counts as sometimes my Brummie upbringing takes over which is why I called my mother Mom and not Mum as in most other regions of England outside of the West Midland area

Having a re-read of this discussion, found the above which reminded me;
My dad was born in Stockport (it was Cheshire in those days), he never lost his accent, he lived in London, NZ and finally in Oz where he died. When speaking to us kids he always referred to our mum as 'yer mam'. Apart from that and how he pronounced one I cannot recall any other noticeable dialect

 

[Bob Spiers]

Having a re-read of this discussion, found the above which reminded me;
My dad was born in Stockport (it was Cheshire in those days), he never lost his accent, he lived in London, NZ and finally in Oz where he died. When speaking to us kids he always referred to our mum as 'yer mam'. Apart from that and how he pronounced one I cannot recall any other noticeable dialect

Yes 'Mam' is very common in the North (for simplicities sake north of Birmingham as I do not want to create arguments as to where the North starts). We have Northern friends (not necessarily still living there) - in our own case from Lancashire, Yorkshire & the Newcastle area - who used the term often, either when talking about their own Mother or to their children about their Mother. In fact rarely using 'Mother' except in some formal sense. The same goes for 'Father' although Dad quite common (even 'me' Dad as they seldom sounded the 'y' of my), and 'Pa' ; 'Pap' or 'Pop' adding 'Grand' as a prefix when referring to Grandfathers.

Googling tells me that 'Mam' is also used in Ireland, Wales & Scotland (and that reminds when as a child visiting my Welsh Aunt (she from the West Midlands, he born in the Rhondda- and yes a Coalminer), my cousins called their mother 'Mam', and I think their father 'Da'.

Mum it seems is 'common throughout Britain' (which I think must be by area of usage because I never came across any 'Northerner' of my acquaintance using the term) which is why the added comment... 'particularly in the south' seems to qualify the point.

Inevitably they show 'Mom' as 'most associated with American English' which seems to imply those from the Midlands adopt American English but make no reference to its popularity of use in the West Midlands. What they really mean is that 'Mom' is the most common term for Mother in the USA. ( They omit to mention 'Ma' being popular in the American southern states).

In conclusion 'Mam' seems to be the oldest term originating from 'Mama' (1707) with Mum (1823) and Mom (yes actually mentioned) in 1867. Now you know until someone says different.

 

[Helen7]

Sometimes it's easy to tell the difference between the American and Canadian accents, especially with the way the Canadians pronounce house, about and round.

I agree, but many in the UK clearly find it difficult. I remember when I first met a Canadian woman (in Scotland), I asked her whereabouts in Canada she was from, and she was thrilled, as everyone else she'd met thought she was American.

I can always tell if someone has spent time in Australia.

My son has lived in Australia for 9 years and talks exactly as he did when he left England. I'd defy anyone to spot any trace of an Australian accent when he speaks (despite his partner being very Aussie). He doesn't pick up accents, and talks with a very neutral 'English' accent, despite spending his 'formative' years (aged 2 to 7) in Scotland. This is probably as a result of moving around quite a lot and having one parent from the North of England and the other from London.

 

[Bob Spiers]

NOW HERE THIS and in the Posting I began on cooking - even if about Liver & Bacon/Onion - I have as of this morning (Sunday) begun to cook (steam) my own Steak & Kidney pudding, which I promised I would do at some point soon. Well the soon was today and -watched over by my eagle eyed wife - I prepared the flour and suet pastry for the basin lining and lid, added the Steak and Kidney (Cut up and bought from a local butcher and frozen, defrosted over night) , added onion and seasoned flour, then water and magic ingredients X47 (one a dash of Worcestershire sauce (as recommended by Deli) the others my wife's very own (gravy colouring) granules found online and the same as used by her mother before her). The pastry turned out top notch even if I say so myself (though helped from advice about the amount of water to be added to the suet mix) The basin half lined (my wife's recommendation) and the pastry crust added after watering and sealing the basin.

My wife prepared the foil lid -pleated to allow expansion - and string tied to the basin. Next (on my wife's recommendation) a long foil strip of many layers, to go under the basis and an aid to lifting out. We used an old pressure cooker, added a trivet and water brought to the boil before adding the basin made easy by the foil support strip.

So 5 hours to go a slow simmer, keeping watch ever so often on the pan water (add more boiling water if needed). Then Bobs your uncle. Don't know what all the fuss is about but do hope the eating of the S&K justifies the labour that went into it. Will be sure to tell.

 

[Tim]

Is it still cooking Bob?

 

[At home in NZ]

I agree, but many in the UK clearly find it difficult. I remember when I first met a Canadian woman (in Scotland), I asked her whereabouts in Canada she was from, and she was thrilled, as everyone else she'd met thought she was American.

My son has lived in Australia for 9 years and talks exactly as he did when he left England. I'd defy anyone to spot any trace of an Australian accent when he speaks (despite his partner being very Aussie). He doesn't pick up accents, and talks with a very neutral 'English' accent, despite spending his 'formative' years (aged 2 to 7) in Scotland. This is probably as a result of moving around quite a lot and having one parent from the North of England and the other from London.

My youngest brother lives in Perth, prior to that, Brisbane and prior to that Auckland. He was 7 when he was brought to NZ, in 1966, by my parents who are also one from the North and one from the South. He moved to Brisbane at the age of 23 and has lived in Oz ever since.
Even now he gets asked which part of England he is from. He was born in the South.

 

[jorghes]

I agree, but many in the UK clearly find it difficult. I remember when I first met a Canadian woman (in Scotland), I asked her whereabouts in Canada she was from, and she was thrilled, as everyone else she'd met thought she was American.

My son has lived in Australia for 9 years and talks exactly as he did when he left England. I'd defy anyone to spot any trace of an Australian accent when he speaks (despite his partner being very Aussie). He doesn't pick up accents, and talks with a very neutral 'English' accent, despite spending his 'formative' years (aged 2 to 7) in Scotland. This is probably as a result of moving around quite a lot and having one parent from the North of England and the other from London.

My friend has a story, when she was living in England, she used to get frustrated by all the people who would confuse her accent with those of the Kiwis. She used to hold up a pen to highlight the differences between them - due to the NZ vowel shift, their pronunciation is more like "pin", in a similar manner I once saw a bit of graffiti which said "Australia sux" some enterprising individual had added "NZ nil".

Officially there are only three Australian accents in total - slowly another two are being recognised (Cultivated, General, Broad, Ethnic & Aboriginal). Eventually there will probably be more. Even so - I went on a tour which included two other Australian girls and my accent was singled out as not sounding the same as the others... And I have once been told my accent doesn't sound Australia (it definitely is.)

 

[Margery]

only three Australian accents in total

Well I wonder which one they use in Western Australia? On our first visit to Perth we thought that the hotel receptionist was from NZ (it's the vowels)
until we discovered that, to our ears, the other locals sounded the same.
A different speech pattern, not so much an accent, was from Newcastle, NSW. Years ago when I lived in Sydney I often visited Newcastle representing an organisation to which I belonged. Hard to describe, their turn of phrase was quite distinctive and one often had to concentrate to get their meaning.
Also, as a child I noticed that my friends who attended the local Convent would say "Aye-men" whereas we protestants would say "Ah-men". I now believe that this was the result of having Irish Priests and Nuns.

 

[Helen7]

A different speech pattern, not so much an accent, was from Newcastle, NSW. Years ago when I lived in Sydney I often visited Newcastle representing an organisation to which I belonged. Hard to describe, their turn of phrase was quite distinctive and one often had to concentrate to get their meaning.

That’s interesting. I’ll ask my son and his partner about it, as they live in Newcastle. His partner was born there and lived all her life in that area, and I’ve never had any difficulty in understanding her (she just sounds Australian to me!)

 

[Bob Spiers]

Is it still cooking Bob?

Cooked, served and eaten - my own critique to follow and a photo or two. Watch this space

 

[Bob Spiers]

Also, as a child I noticed that my friends who attended the local Convent would say "Aye-men" whereas we protestants would say "Ah-men". I now believe that this was the result of having Irish Priests and Nuns.

Now that has provided a memory jog on the very same theme - 'Aye-men' or 'Ah-men'. Something that has cropped up more than once either after attending a Wedding or Funeral Church Service and on one occasion I recall well, when visiting some Catholic friends from Liverpool, but at the time living in Kent.

I was brought up Protestant (C of E with Baptist overtones) and say Ah-men, so does my wife, also with a Protestant upbringing. Our Liverpool Catholic (they would insist on saying Roman Catholic) friends could only relate to saying Aye-men (both went to Catholic schools, with Priests and Nuns). They thought it likely a regional variation thing, but I said it was the opposite because Brummies tend to use the short 'a' (aye) as in Grass or Castle as do 'Scousers' and northerners in general. Southerners use the long 'a' and say 'Graass' or 'Caarsel' (sorry do not know how to express same phonetically). So it had to be Protestant versus Catholic!

Of course there there will be exceptions to the rule and my comments are strictly personal and based on observations in the past. Also from general experience of noticing when both Amen versions are used either first hand or when heard on the radio or TV.

 

[Bob Spiers]

First let me say I do not think the Cook should be the one to offer a critique of a meal cooked, served and eaten by him; but that is what I am going to do.

As I have said previously, my wife -like her mother before her - has cooked a good many S&K Puddings (rarely pies for some reason). I liked them so much and they became my personal favourites. All I had to do was eat what she cooked. They became 'treats' cooked for my birthday, our anniversary and on one occasion at 'C' (cannot use the full word until December). A few years back she had a bad fall, broker her femur in several places and had to undergo trauma surgery to have her femur pinned. This meant she was unable to stand for long without pain, and although I had taken on cooking duties before her fall, from that point onwards I became the Head Cook.

Now to my second attempt at a S&K Pudding, and the first was passing fair with indifferent pastry, but quite edible and enjoyable. Not at all up to my wife's standard but not bad either. The second one had to get close to the standard previously cooked by my wife, and although a marked improvement on the first, still failed to come up to standard.

The preparation this time was far better, and the pastry turned out fine as did getting the pudding ready for cooking (I covered this in my previous posting so will not repeat again). So it steamed for 5 hours and at the end when the basin was removed from the pan the suet pastry top looked exactly like the ones cooked by my wife.(See photo inset sandk).

When the crust was opened and the pudding served I noticed a marked 'paleness' of the meat content - my wife's being much darker and the gravy in more abundance. (See photo inset #2)

My wife's conclusion was that the basin water content which I added up to the level of the meat, should have extended to about 3/4 inch below the basin top. I also discovered (and this was not entirely my fault as my wife directed me to a jar of gravy granules) that I had used the wrong granule type, the correct one being further back in the cupboard. I had added a splash of Worcestershire sauce, which was NOT used by my wife, but following advice in Delia Smith's book.

Now to the eating. A disappointment -not a major one, but the 'je ne sais quoi' flavour so beloved of her puddings was still not achieved. I am awarding myself 9 out of 10 on preparation and cooking, and 7 1/2 on flavour. My wife thinks I under-rate myself and awards me 8 1/2, and reminds she gave me 9 1/2 for my Toad in the Hole and mentioned she barely made an 8 when she made her own. How the plate looked ready for eating with mash and greens is shown in photo #3.

End result and as often written on school reports..."COULD DO BETTER". (add Photo #3)

 

[Tim]

It's a good effort Bob. Hats off to the chef.

 

[Margery]

never had any difficulty in understanding her

Maybe it was just the circle I was moving in!

 

[peter]

My youngest brother lives in Perth, prior to that, Brisbane and prior to that Auckland. He was 7 when he was brought to NZ, in 1966, by my parents who are also one from the North and one from the South. He moved to Brisbane at the age of 23 and has lived in Oz ever since.
Even now he gets asked which part of England he is from. He was born in the South.

Whilst your brother would have been exposed to local accents and dialects at school, he'd have heard his parents speaking at home.

 

[At home in NZ]

Whilst your brother would have been exposed to local accents and dialects at school, he'd have heard his parents speaking at home.

We don't always use the same accent as our parents, otherwise I would have an accent that is half Cheshire and half London, and I do not because I have what is now called an Estuary English accent.
My daughter was brought up here in NZ with two parents who speak Estuary English, she grew up with a strong NZ accent.