Saving on heating bills

[Pauline]

I found lots of other sites too, but each one seemed to be selling something

There are others, including this page for private tenants on the Oxford City Council site, for example. They say:

A good range of indoor humidity for comfort and health is between 30-60% during cooler months of the year. Mould is likely to occur if the relative humidity indoors is 70% or more for long periods of time. Keeping humidity levels under 50% also helps to minimise or control dust mites. But it is also possible to live in a house that is too dry! Humidity levels below about 30% lead to dry skin and nasal passages, increasing the potential for respiratory illnesses.

They also say:
The more humid the air is in your house, the more energy it takes to warm your house because it is also warming the water in the air. This means it will be more expensive to heat!
(I touched on this above.)

 

[peter]

The more humid the air is in your house, the more energy it takes to warm your house because it is also warming the water in the air. This means it will be more expensive to heat!

Although that is technically correct the difference in the amount of energy required is absolutely negligible - see this discussion. which explains that the difference between 0% humidity and 100% humidity translates to just under 2% increase in the amount of heat required, so about 0.2% for a difference in humidity of 10%.

When you heat a house you're heating the house itself and all its contents, not just the air - so the overall impact is going to be very, very small indeed. The difference in the annual cost is likely to be pence rather than pounds.

 

[Pauline]

Although that is technically correct the difference in the amount of energy required is absolutely negligible

To be honest I hadn't ever thought about it in quite those terms, but what I do know is that it feels colder if it's damp and humid inside, and the discussion you link to hints at why that is. So to feel equally comfortable you need to set the thermostat a bit higher than in less humid conditions and that costs more. Moreover, to reduce humidity levels on a longer term basis you need to increase ventilation and that inevitably lowers the temperature inside when it's colder outside.

 

[peter]

To be honest I hadn't ever thought about it in quite those terms, but what I do know is that it feels colder if it's damp and humid inside. So to feel equally comfortable you need to set the thermostat a bit higher than in less humid conditions and that costs more. Moreover, to reduce humidity levels on a longer term basis you need to increase ventilation and that inevitably lowers the temperature inside when it's colder outside.

Both low and high humidity are unhealthy and unpleasant. If relative humidity is within the right range the air won't feel dry or damp, so there is no additional cost.

The problem is not with humidity it's with the mistaken idea that more heat is always better.

 

[canadianbeth]

We have a thing on the wall that tells us the temperature, barometer, and humidity. Currently, it states that the humidity inside is 70%. My weather app says outside it is 28%. I agree with the "feels colder" if it is humid; I am considering put on my shawl and the thermostat says it is 72C, so not cold, just that I am. And, for some reason, the front of our place always feels cooler than the back; we live in a one-floor mobile.

 

[Pauline]

If relative humidity is within the right range the air won't feel dry or damp, so there is no additional cost.

Yes, it would be good if we all lived in ideal homes.

 

[peter]

the humidity inside is 70%. My weather app says outside it is 28%

That's very strange - my weather app tells me that humidity outside where you are is currently 30% but estimates that indoor humidity would be only 33%. Any idea why indoor humidity is so high?

I agree with the "feels colder" if it is humid

It's not as simple as that - when it's hot high humidity makes you feel even warmer.

Yes, it would be good if we all lived in ideal homes.

It would but I don't understand how that relates to the comment you were responding to. We can adjust the humidity in our homes - that's what humidifiers and dehumidifiers do.

 

[Pauline]

We can adjust the humidity in our homes - that's what humidifiers and dehumidifiers do.

It’s not quite that simple, and it’s much easier to humidify than it is to dehumidify. Dehumidifiers work best as a short term solution rather than as a longer term fix, and they are noisy.

 

[peter]

It’s not quite that simple, and it’s much easier to humidify than it is to dehumidify. Dehumidifiers work best as a short term solution rather than as a permanent cure, and they are noisy.

I've lived in lots of houses but never somewhere that was damp enough to need a dehumidifier (the only time I've used one was when we converted part of our garage to a utility room).

However I know that some people living in flats have problems with damp. The good news is that dehumidifiers aren't all noisy - this one is a Which? Best Buy and user reviews suggest it is very quiet.

 

[Margery]

Nor do we have electric blankets or use hot water bottles

Ah, but do you have flannelette sheets Bob?

keeping bedroom windows slight open all year round

Almost without exception we have found that English B&Bs' dislike having their windows open. One establishment had a gremlin that closed the window whenever we left our room and in another the window defied all of my husband's efforts to open it until we discovered that it had been painted shut!

 

[At home in NZ]

It’s not quite that simple, and it’s much easier to humidify than it is to dehumidify. Dehumidifiers work best as a short term solution rather than as a longer term fix, and they are noisy.

I feel like I'm living in a different world. Dehumidifiers are often used in homes in NZ on a long term basis, they are commonly sold in shops that sell electrical appliances. They aren't what I would call noisy but they do make a sound. I used one for some years when I lived in Auckland where it is humid almost all year round, admittedly it was a stop gap measure until I could afford to fix the windows and have a ventilation/warming system fitted in the roof space.

Ah, but do you have flannelette sheets Bob?

Almost without exception we have found that English B&Bs' dislike having their windows open. One establishment had a gremlin that closed the window whenever we left our room and in another the window defied all of my husband's efforts to open it until we discovered that it had been painted shut!

When we go to England we don't do B&B but have found the hotels we stay at that do have opening windows they are only able to be opened a fraction. It's a health and safety measure to stop little people climbing out. Don't get me started.............

 

[Margery]

When we go to England we don't do B&B

When we first visited England we found that B&B was an economical way of seeing the countryside. Also we often gained local knowledge from the proprietor (e.g the tides when visiting Holy Island), they seemed genuinely pleased to have guests and we were often served home-made produce. However on recent visits we found that many establishments were more of the boarding house style with a commercial kitchen serving mass produced fare. I suppose it's called progress with stainless steel kitchens and WH&S requirements.
Like AhiNZ, don't get me started...

 

[peter]

When we first visited England we found that B&B was an economical way of seeing the countryside

Not any more - the pricing now follows the American pattern. Budget hotels are now much cheaper than B&Bs (provided you book in advance), and often more comfortable.

But if you can afford it, staying on a farm, as we did when we visited Devon about 15 years ago, can be worth it. Though it was a bit embarrassing to open the front door to a man from the RSPCSA who had come to investigate complaints of animal cruelty!

 

[Susan48]

the pricing now follows the American pattern

What do you mean by that, Peter?

 

[Bob Spiers]

I feel like I'm living in a different world.

Ain't that the truth? You are. I haven't been to NZ but twice to Oz and my experience with the latter bears out that it IS a different world. Sharing a common language (give or take) but certainly a vastly different climate, and - allowing for cultural differences (whatever they may be) - pretty sure the same for NZ. Likewise both Canada and the US (have been to the latter not the former) are still climatically different, even if not always so markedly different as the Antipodes. To summarise: 'we each relate to our own climate, based upon our own locale and customs'

Memories of visiting my sister and husband in Oz when they had their own house (I would say Bungalow but apparently that term is reserved in Australia for shed or outhouse) in rural (the Bush) Victoria. They had their air conditioner on throughout the day if at home or in their fairly extensive garden and paddocks (fields to the uninitiated). It would be set somewhere in the mid 20's and adjusted often by my sister, but I recall she thought anything below 21 was freezing and given the outside temperature was in the 30's (at one point 38) it was.

On the second visit, still Oz summer, we toured more and seemingly not quite so hot as the first time. When at home the air conditioner (I don't recall actual Humidifiers or Dehumidifiers not that I was aware of such at the time) was more often on than off, but this time set to compensate temperatures in the mid to high 20's; occasionally touching 30.

So quite different climatic 'worlds' and different measures in place to cope with heat, cold & humidity. What we do in the UK may seem strange in other places in the world as do measures taken in other countries to us.

 

[peter]

What do you mean by that, Peter?

In the US B&Bs have long been more expensive than many hotels, whereas in England they used to be a low-cost option.

 

[Pauline]

I'm a bit surprised that my comments about high humidity in houses prompted so much discussion, so to clarify things, I'm speaking from experience (over many years and in several different houses), but only from a UK perspective and only during the colder months of the year. Clearly things are different in other countries, and particularly where it's generally more humid.

So, from our experience, the most effective long-term solution to reduce humidity is to improve ventilation by opening windows regularly and to turn the thermostat up a notch. Dehumidifiers have their uses for shorter term issues, or where increased ventilation is impractical, but noise tolerance is a very personal thing and they are certainly not free to run. Also the idea that we can have complete control of the humidity levels in our homes at the touch of a button is a bit optimistic in practice.

Until covid highlighted the benefits of fresh air, ventilation was becoming seen as un-green. Our boiler is a relatively new one and the user advice is that the heating should not be switched on until all windows and ventilators are closed and sealed. If you go with that advice in an overly humid home then a dehumidifier would be the only option (and probably why they have become more popular), but I couldn't live without ever opening the windows and letting some fresh air in.

 

[At home in NZ]

I couldn't live without ever opening the windows and letting some fresh air in.

Neither could I which is another reason I don't like air conditioning as it only works properly if everything is closed.
I am noise intolerant too but when you live with something that is making a sound all the time such as the clocks in our house you get used to it.
Our fridge hums, as it is supposed to do, but I rarely notice it.
What a long way off topic we have come, human nature I guess.

 

[Bob Spiers]

What a long way off topic we have come, human nature I guess.

I'd say we have stayed remarkedly ON TOPIC - for once.

 

[Bob Spiers]

So, from our experience, the most effective long-term solution to reduce humidity is to improve ventilation by opening windows regularly and to turn the thermostat up a notch.

I'd say Amen to that sentiment. Works in our house, especially ventilation and temperature, subject to the occasional plus or minus on the thermostat to suit individual requirement.