Saving on heating bills

[At home in NZ]

In today's (30 Sep 2021) newsletter Peter said:
Tip: one of the best ways to save on heating bills is to turn down the thermostat – ours is generally set to 18C during the day, 10C at night, but I know that some people have theirs permanently set to 22C. Ironically setting the thermostat too high can increase your chances of catching a cold, because warm air can dry out the airways, harming your natural defences – it’s perhaps no wonder that respiratory diseases are such a problem for the residents of care homes.

It sounds very much like personal choice and opinion because 18C is considered too cool by my partner and cold by me. As for 10C at night, I would never get to sleep.

From the NZ Ministry of Health website:

• Keep the bedroom quiet and dark, at a comfortable temperature. This is different for everyone, but generally falls within the range of 15–20°C. Make sure your bedding is comfortable too.

 

[Pauline]

I agree that heating levels are very much a matter of personal choice, and it also depends on the age, general health and mobility of the occupants, the type of property you live in, and to an extent the type of heating system.

Commenting specifically on what Peter wrote: firstly, many modern UK heating systems do not fully switch themselves off until the temperature reaches a full degree above the thermostat temperature, and secondly, I doubt the temperature very often - if ever - drops as low as 10C overnight in his house, and this setting may be to prevent the heating coming on during the night unless it gets really cold. And I would agree that setting the thermostat to 22C is unnecessarily high for the majority of households, though some may find 18C a bit on the parky side.

Modern houses in the UK are designed to be ultra energy efficient, and often have little or no ventilation when the windows are closed. This can lead to an unhealthily dry environment, as Peter notes. However, in many older homes the environment may be too damp, which is equally unhealthy; moreover a damp atmosphere can make a house feel colder than it really is. So in an older house it may be necessary to set the thermostat higher than in a modern one, while in a modern house you need to think more about ventilation and humidifying.

Healthy active people will over time adapt to a lower ambient temperature, though may find the process somewhat uncomfortable. But like with most things, there is no 'one size fits all'.

 

[peter]

It sounds very much like personal choice and opinion because 18C is considered too cool by my partner and cold by me. As for 10C at night, I would never get to sleep.

It's not so much personal choice as what you're used to. I grew up without central heating, and when my parents installed it around 1970 I found it uncomfortably hot. At primary school in the 1950s the heating was off from 1st May to 1st November whatever the weather.

As Pauline points out, with the thermostat set at 18C during the day the night time temperature can never get as low as 10C - in fact, it's unlikely to fall more than a couple of degrees. For example, last night the minimum temperature recorded by my Netatmo thermostat was 17C.

Modern houses in the UK are designed to be ultra energy efficient, and often have little or no ventilation when the windows are closed. This can lead to an unhealthily dry environment, as Peter notes. However, in many older homes the environment may be too damp, which is equally unhealthy; moreover a damp atmosphere can make a house feel colder than it really is. So in an older house it may be necessary to set the thermostat higher than in a modern one, while in a modern house you need to think more about ventilation and humidifying.

Ours is an older house - 1870s with 1960s and 1970s extensions. Nevertheless it has never been damp, perhaps because when we moved in there was an Aga (which cost a fortune to run); in fact we put humidifiers on some of the radiators because the air could be uncomfortably dry.

We stopped using the Aga and eventually had it removed altogether; we installed a more efficient central heating boiler and added thermostatic valves to all the radiators; we also added secondary double-glazing to most of the windows that didn't already have it (perspex sheets held in place by magnetic strips - cheap but pretty effective), and increased the loft insulation. Now we use two-thirds less oil over the course of a year, saving more than 12 tons of CO2 annually.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Healthy active people will over time adapt to a lower ambient temperature, though may find the process somewhat uncomfortable. But like with most things, there is no 'one size fits all'.

In our household I can control the heating from my phone as I have 'Hive' installed (worth it's weight in gold) which allows me to change time and temperature settings and best of all, respond to my wife feeling cold, or even too hot (she sits alongside a radiator during the evening) with 'Boost' or 'Off' overrides.

When the heating is on Schedule (3 time interval settings daytime and switched on usually from October onwards until mid-late spring) our thermostat is set to 21.5 morning then 21 afternoon and evening. Believe me we have experimented with everything from 20 to 22.5 (but never as low as 18). These settings allow a comfortable temperature in the home and permit temperature accord for both of us helped by the fact she sits adjacent a radiator in the evening.

There is no night setting as such, just a default FROST setting of 7 deg between time intervals. This is really a token default setting as our house temperature rarely falls below 15 deg and certainly never below 12. We do NOT have Radiators turned ON in the bedrooms - something on which we both agree - and the only exception to this is if we have a guest who likes to awaken to a warm bedroom as the Schedule starts at 7.30am. The bathroom radiator comes on at the same time.

I am sure my daughter has ice in her veins as the temperature in her own home is permanently set at 22 deg and this is constant even in bedrooms, her en-suite bathroom and the one used by guests. When we stay over (rarely because of the ambient heat) we insist bedroom radiators are switched off at least an hour before we retire, and have to accept the bathroom will be heated even during the night. Her husband (a landscape gardener) spends a lot of time in his garage or garden and goes about in tee shirt and shorts. Not surprisingly he complains about the fuel bills.

On visits to our house (during Autumn/Winter) she will either sit in her coat or don a cardigan as she finds our house a little on the cold side (it is rarely below 20 deg).

 

[peter]

In our household I can control the heating from my phone as I have 'Hive' installed (worth it's weight in gold) which allows me to change time and temperature settings and best of all, respond to my wife feeling cold, or even too hot (she sits alongside a radiator during the evening) with 'Boost' or 'Off' overrides.

Netatmo is similar - I chose it because it was a Which? Best Buy (as are Hive and Nest), easily self-installed, and I was able to pick a used one up on eBay for less than half-price. Being able to control the central heating from wherever we are in the world means that there's one less thing to worry about when we go away.

 

[Pauline]

Ours is an older house - 1870s with 1960s and 1970s extensions. Nevertheless it has never been damp

Yes, being older doesn't necessarily mean a house will be damp, but a well built modern house is much less likely to be so.

 

[Pauline]

best of all, respond to my wife feeling cold

I have heard it suggested that women feel the cold more than men, and while I can't quote any research to back this up, observationally it seems there may be some truth in it.

However, I've also observed that women's clothes seem to be designed more for looks than for warmth, and when I want a really warm jumper I find I either have to buy one intended for a small man or knit it myself.

Which leads on to another recommendation for saving on heating bills - wear warmer clothes. I've seen too many people turn up the thermostat instead of reaching for a jumper or jacket.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Which leads on to another recommendation for saving on heating bills - wear warmer clothes. I've seen too many people turn up the thermostat instead of reaching for a jumper or jacket.

Yes not surprised that finds favour, but "her indoors" (to use an Arthur Daley term) whenever she takes a short walk to either of two friends -one up the road, one down - bemoans that although she enjoys the visit and the chat, finds it marred by the fact that both houses are cold. In truth they have thermostats set lower than she finds comfortable and they are given to wearing jumpers. As a result she makes sure she is wearing a warm coat and keeps it on for the visit.

On her return I invariably hear about the ambient low temperatures and that she even has to ask one of them to put on a light as she finds the house dark and foreboding. She thinks them strange and comments neither are badly off so why do they deny themselves home comforts? I usually respond by saying they probably have to put on lighter clothing or wear shades when they visit her. However from all this you will gather that both of us put home comforts high on our list. Indeed, if truth be known, I am the one who hates dark rooms and prefer them lit with a choice of wall lights, uplighters or table lamps and rarely (a reminiscence from my childhood days) with the 'big light'. The kitchen is lit by a ceiling fluorescent 'daylight' tube which remains on throughout the day.

Sorry if any of that offends energy or cost conservationists it is just the way we like things. And remember my daughter finds our house on the cool side just as I find hers not only too warm, but badly lit as well. When we visit she always makes sure her living room Fairy Uplighter is on, which does little to improve things as it is just a myriad of small LCD lights which is more for show than illumination. But you can't satisfy everyone, all the time that is for sure.

 

[peter]

A LostCousins member has just recommended these as a way of keeping warm.

 

[canadianbeth]

Calgary is a winter city. And also very dry. September this year has been an anomaly in that we have had no snow, but we almost certainly will before my birthday later in October. We heat with natural gas, which, I am told, is going up in price. We have our thermostat set for 21-22 in the daytime and 20 at night. Since mid-August, the furnace has come on a few times during the night as the temp drops considerably; tonight it is forecast for plus 5. If I feel chilly in the evenings I don a shawl or robe; I cannot wear sweaters or anything long-sleeved that fits close to my skin. We also replaced all our windows with double-paned glass when we moved in back in 2006; the previous ones did not even have insulation around them. And our roof was replaced last summer, due to extensive hail damage.

 

[At home in NZ]

A LostCousins member has just recommended these as a way of keeping warm.

Really useful site, it came up with the prices in NZD so was impressed BUT the item I wanted doesn't deliver to NZ.
I use throws all winter and the cat enjoys them too.

 

[At home in NZ]

central heating boiler

the furnace has come on a few times

Modern houses in the UK are designed to be ultra energy efficient, and often have little or no ventilation when the windows are closed. This can lead to an unhealthily dry environment

As you all probably know by now I grew up in England. My memories of a freezing cold bedroom with frost on the inside of the window will never leave me. My parents bought the house brand new in about 1954, it was in an area that had been inundated with flood waters from the Thames when the 'Canvey Island Floods' occurred.
All new houses in that area had to be built at least 6 feet above ground in case the floods ever re-occurred.
Therefore the underneath of the house was used as the laundry and the coal cellar (no, not close together) the wind whistled through it even though a door was fitted, my brother and I can remember the lino in the living area would lift off the floor when the wind blew.
Once mum and dad could afford carpet and installed wall heaters in the bedrooms it was much more comfortable to live in. There was a fireplace with a 'backburner' and I remember dad would bank the fire up at night in order to keep the water hot enough to wash or have a bath.

'central heating boiler' and 'furnace' are not items that I associate with heating homes. The house I live in now was built 6 years ago and according to the law had to be fully insulated and have double glazed windows. We live in a reasonably mild climate, never get snow but a few weeks ago had a thick frost and when that happens it is usually melted by about 9am.
We have a heat pump in the living area which is quite large as it is open plan and includes a dining area and the kitchen. We rarely turn it on before 5pm and always set it 24C, if we get too warm we turn it top 22C.
We could use it as an air conditioner but I cannot stand how cold it makes me. Some time in the summer a couple of years ago we visited relatives, they had their heat pump set to 20C in aircon mode, when we left it took me a whole hour to warm up. From memory the outside temp was bout 26, my ideal summer temp.

It is law here for landlords to provide warm, dry homes which you can read about, if interested enough of course. healthy home standards includes a map of climate zones in NZ which I'd never seen before.
I don't necessarily agree that a dry environment is unhealthy, humidity is high in parts of NZ which exacerbates asthma and other respiratory problems.

 

[peter]

As you all probably know by now I grew up in England. My memories of a freezing cold bedroom with frost on the inside of the window will never leave me.

Me neither - I used to draw pictures in the frost with my fingernail. So different from growing up today!

I don't necessarily agree that a dry environment is unhealthy, humidity is high in parts of NZ which exacerbates asthma and other respiratory problems.

As with most things it's about having a happy medium. My wife has suffered from asthma since childhood, but it very rarely affects her these days; I suffered from dry skin for much of my life, but that's a thing of the past. As long as humidity is within a comfortable range we're both happy and healthy.

I can still have a problem with air conditioning (whether heating or cooling) because it dries out the air, but we don't have a heat pump at home - very few people do in the UK (though they are the future). I don't like travelling in taxis or other people's cars in winter because they are often over-heated and uncomfortably dry.

I can't find any NHS recommendations on humidity levels but this is what they say about temperature:

Follow these tips to keep you and your family warm and well at home:

• if you're not very mobile, are 65 or over, or have a health condition, such as heart or lung disease, heat your home to at least 18C
• keep your bedroom at 18C all night if you can – and keep bedroom window closed
• if you're under 65, healthy and active, you can safely have your home cooler than 18C, as long as you're comfortable
• use a hot water bottle or electric blanket to keep warm in bed – but do not use both at the same time
• have at least 1 hot meal a day – eating regularly helps keep you warm
• have hot drinks regularly
• to reduce the risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), babies should sleep in rooms heated to between 16C and 20C
• draw curtains at dusk and keep doors closed to block out draughts
• get your heating system checked regularly by a qualified professional

 

[Pauline]

I can't find any NHS recommendations on humidity levels

Nor can I, but there are other UK sites which recommend that for health and comfort the ideal indoor humidity is between 40 and 60%. The humidity in our house is currently 69%, and we've had the heating on this morning.

 

[peter]

there are other UK sites which recommend that for health and comfort the ideal indoor humidity is between 40 and 60%

I found lots of other sites too, but each one seemed to be selling something (houses, home improvements, dehumidifiers etc). Looking further afield I found a 200+ page WHO report, but it looked only at the health problems caused by damp.

 

[Bob Spiers]

After my Covid scare in 2020 which turned out to be pneumonia type chest infection causing breathlessness, I was advised by the Consultant doctor to ensure the house was maintained at a good ambient level of humidity, not too dry nor wet. I seem to recall she suggested 50-60%, but that meant little to me, so I ended up getting a Thermometer/Humidity Meter and a modestly costed table top Dehumidifier.

As I got over the infection keeping the Dehumidifier topped seemed unnecessary, as we were maintaining 'Comfort' levels. So I discontinued its use and unplugged it. It still remains in place but has become something of an ornament much to my wife's chagrin who constantly chides: "it should be 'put away' (a euphemism for get rid perhaps to a Charity Shop of passed on to a deserving cause)", but the Meter is still in use when we remember to check it out. Its most interesting feature I found was in reminding of 'Comfort' settings which I show below:



Most of the time we remain in Comfort levels and until such time as that changes (now the heating is more or less on and subject to thermostat settings) the Dehumidifier will remain (fingers crossed) and the Meter will continue to record hopefully that we are in the Comfort zone...well in the house at least!

 

[Bob Spiers]

My memories of a freezing cold bedroom with frost on the inside of the window will never leave me.

Yes I quite agree freezing cold bedrooms (from Autumn to late Spring) were part of everyone's experience back in the day and the topic crops up whenever we meet up with family and friends of the same age vintage. But, perhaps as a legacy of those times we both insist on cool (perhaps bordering on cold in the winter) bedrooms and in these days of double glazing, central heating, wall and loft insulations that is fairly easily maintained without heat, so we have bedroom radiators turned off by default. Nor do we have electric blankets or use hot water bottles - although I believe we have one of the latter in the cupboard under the stairs for emergencies?

We both positively dislike warm and humid nights after unusually hot days which we seem to have more and more in these 'Climate' controversial days. We try to remember to draw bedroom window blinds early and partially open windows. In fact keeping bedroom windows slight open all year round is more the rule rather than the exception for me at least, and was also something recommended to me by my Respiratory doctor.

We both dislike hotels where we cannot turn off radiators and I have already mentioned staying overnight at my daughter's who maintains her house (including bedrooms) at summer temperatures all year round. No wonder we both prefer to stay at home and -as the saying goes...'its an ill wind that blows no one any good' - a more acceptable offshoot of the pandemic, sad as that may sound.

 

[peter]

a modestly costed table top Dehumidifier

Are you sure it wasn't a humidifier? A humidifier you top up, a dehumidifier you empty.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Are you sure it wasn't a humidifier? A humidifier you top up, a dehumidifier you empty.

Yes and would you believe I first wrote Humidifier, but then thought perhaps it was a Dehumidifier and so edited it to show same. I believe we have a dehumidifier in the bathroom which, as you say one empties, but that comes within the scope of my wife's duties. But thanks for the correction.

 

[peter]

I believe we have a dehumidifier in the bathroom which, as you say one empties, but that comes within the scope of my wife's duties.

We have a humidity controlled fan in our bathroom, although I need to change the setting as it has been so humid outside this summer that some days it's constantly running.

The weather app on my phone describes indoor humidity up to 65% as 'Ideal', from 66% to 85% as 'Slightly humid' and over 85% as humid.