Paying by cheque

[At home in NZ]

In the newsletter of 17 August 2021 is mention of cheques being sent with applications for records. I am a little bemused.

Neither I nor my partner have written a cheque since April 2014 because we use other methods to pay for things.
Cheques are no longer used in NZ, they were phased out this year.

One of the banks we use had this to say about it:
With less than 1% of XYZ customers' payments being made by cheque, XYZ is phasing out cheques as a payment option. A number of other New Zealand banks have also indicated their intention to phase out cheques during 2021.
Most of our customers now prefer the convenience, simplicity, and security of using online and mobile payment options, which are more secure and processed faster than cheques.
I have replaced the bank name with XYZ.

 

[peter]

Cheques are the only method of payment that the MoD currently accepts. Unfortunately this prevents most overseas descendants from ordering their ancestor's WW2 service records.

 

[At home in NZ]

Cheques are the only method of payment that the MoD currently accepts. Unfortunately this prevents most overseas descendants from ordering their ancestor's WW2 service records.

Have looked for a way to do it from NZ and it appears that the only way we can pay for something in foreign currency is electronic transfer. I don't know how long ago it was but we used to be able to buy something like a postal order or foreign currency cheque to send overseas.
Do postal orders still exist?

 

[peter]

Have looked for a way to do it from NZ and it appears that the only way we can pay for something in foreign currency is electronic transfer. I don't know how long ago it was but we used to be able to buy something like a postal order or foreign currency cheque to send overseas.
Do postal orders still exist?

They may exist but the charges are prohibitively high. I cannot accept them for them for the payment of subscriptions because my bank will simply return them to me as not worth processing.

It's a shame the MoD don't take credit cards - the GRO have done so for as long as I can remember.

 

[Sue_3]

How interesting, we have been spending a lot of time processing cheques because we do all of my 98-year-old mother-in-laws shopping for her and she reimburses us by giving us cheques. She has no alternative as she is now too deaf to use the telephone and has never mastered any modern technology, so she can only manage paper banking. Before the pandemic we used to pay in the cheques at our local bank branch. During the first lockdown I asked my bank what I could do instead and they recommended posting the cheques to the branch, which for a long time I have been doing. They did not recommend using their app to scan the cheques, because if you do that and it fails for any reason, you then HAVE to take the cheque into a branch, or shred it and ask for a replacement. As we were trying to minimise visits to Mum-in-Law before we were all fully jabbed, the last thing we wanted was to have to keep going to get replacement cheques! I should explain that she still lives independently, albeit with support, about 16 miles from us. Anyway, more recently I've started scanning the cheques with the phone app, because I would feel OK going to the bank if I had to now. The question arises though, what would we do if cheques no longer existed?? I suspect Mum-in-Law's financial independence would be at an end?

 

[canadianbeth]

As long as my bank continues to charge me for more than three e-transfers a month, I will continue to write the odd cheque. Generally, it is just two a month, to our housekeeper, but if I have already done the three e-transfers then I might have to write another to my Avon lady. On rare occasions, I will actually receive a cheque and I just deposit it using my tablet. Since e-transfers do not require the need for human interaction, I do not understand why they are not all free. When I was still selling Avon myself, a lot of my customers would give me cheques, because they did not have computers, so could not do e-transfers. Since we all lived in the same community I had no issues with them writing a cheque.

 

[peter]

How interesting, we have been spending a lot of time processing cheques because we do all of my 98-year-old mother-in-laws shopping for her and she reimburses us by giving us cheques. She has no alternative as she is now too deaf to use the telephone and has never mastered any modern technology, so she can only manage paper banking. Before the pandemic we used to pay in the cheques at our local bank branch. During the first lockdown I asked my bank what I could do instead and they recommended posting the cheques to the branch, which for a long time I have been doing. They did not recommend using their app to scan the cheques, because if you do that and it fails for any reason, you then HAVE to take the cheque into a branch, or shred it and ask for a replacement. As we were trying to minimise visits to Mum-in-Law before we were all fully jabbed, the last thing we wanted was to have to keep going to get replacement cheques! I should explain that she still lives independently, albeit with support, about 16 miles from us. Anyway, more recently I've started scanning the cheques with the phone app, because I would feel OK going to the bank if I had to now. The question arises though, what would we do if cheques no longer existed?? I suspect Mum-in-Law's financial independence would be at an end?

Why don't you pay using her debit card - problem solved!

 

[peter]

Since e-transfers do not require the need for human interaction, I do not understand why they are not all free.

They are in the UK. However, just because something doesn't require human interaction doesn't mean that there are no costs.

 

[At home in NZ]

The question arises though, what would we do if cheques no longer existed?? I suspect Mum-in-Law's financial independence would be at an end?

Not necessarily, our banks have a lot of advice on how to cope without them. We have Smart ATMs where you can withdraw/deposit cash, pay bills and transfer funds between accounts. All you need is a piece of plastic which some banks call a cash card.

I agree with Peter, use mother-in-law's debit card.

 

[canadianbeth]

Our credit union recently merged with another and changed its name. I had the occasion to send another e-transfer today (new statement month) and saw a link to their fees for all the different accounts. Ours was not listed so I called and was informed that it no longer existed (except for those of us who have it) because if clients saw it they would want it, haha. Anyway, their senior account permits 10 Interac transfers/month; previously I had to pay $1.50 for every one I used, which is why we switched to the one that no longer exists, which allows only three free. Since that senior one is still there but dormant I was informed that I could transfer money to that account and use it just for Interac. Doing that means I would not have to write our housekeeper a cheque every two weeks (the last one which shehas yet to cash almost two weeks later). Obviously, if some accounts permit 10 a month, why not all accounts?

We have Smart ATMs where you can withdraw/deposit cash, pay bills and transfer funds between accounts. All you need is a piece of plastic which some banks call a cash card.

We have those as well. I actually tried to use ours last month when I needed some cash. But it was also different from before the merger and I was a bit confused, it asked how many of which denominations I wanted; previously we would just get $20. bills, so I wound up standing in line. I pay bills with a cc or online. (as an aside, someone had tried to break into the ATM; the outside window was boarded up and access to just it was removed, so it is only open when the branch is. And there is now a security person standing inside the main door. )

 

[Sue_3]

Why don't you pay using her debit card - problem solved!

We do not have access to her debit card, why would we?

It is possible to get third party access by having her agree to an extra card being issued to one of us. Unfortunately that can only be done if she can visit a branch of her bank to authorise it. As they have closed all of the local branches the nearest one is now too far away for her to travel to, even if we take her by car.

 

[Sue_3]

Not necessarily, our banks have a lot of advice on how to cope without them. We have Smart ATMs where you can withdraw/deposit cash, pay bills and transfer funds between accounts. All you need is a piece of plastic which some banks call a cash card.

I agree with Peter, use mother-in-law's debit card.

I don't think you fully appreciate the situation. She is more or less housebound. We order her some of her shopping to be delivered to us as she cannot hear or answer her doorbell. We order her groceries to be delivered to her doorway then go to take them in for her. We do not have access to her debit card, why would we? If we did, as before, she would have no financial independence. Also, we would be committing a crime by using a card that is not in either of our names??

 

[Sue_3]

The point is, if you cannot access an ATM, cannot visit your nearest bank branch, cannot use a telephone and cannot use the internet, you are pretty much stranded unless you can use cheques to repay those who do your shopping and get cash for you? Regular bills can be paid by direct debits or standing orders ... although they can also be a bit difficult, but not impossible, to maintain by post.

 

[At home in NZ]

Power of attorney might help?

 

[LynSB]

Sue, I used to use the same system as you with my very elderly parents. My father had Alzheimer’s and we were anxious not to cause him any suspicions we were taking over his finances. He was reassured to see Mum write the cheque and discuss the breakdown of expenses. He would have retreated further into himself if he had seen this little bit of their independence taken away.

 

[Pauline]

Power of attorney might help?

We had a Lasting Power of Attorney for my father, but it wasn't always as useful as it should have been. Things may have improved in the last couple of years, but we encountered a a fair bit of ignorance and incompetence where some banks were concerned. Also, some of the better interest savings accounts could not be opened with an LPA and some banks would not allow online access with them.

One thing that wasn't always recognised is than an LPA (in England and Wales) is different from the old Enduring Power of Attorney in that the person concerned is not prevented by it from managing their own finances whenever possible. Some people neither need nor want their relatives to 'take over' their finances (as LynSB mentions), they would just like a bit of assistance while essentially retaining their financial independence.

 

[Susan48]

One thing that wasn't always recognised is than an LPA (in England and Wales) is different from the old Enduring Power of Attorney in that the person concerned is not prevented by it from managing their own finances whenever possible.

My brother and I had an Enduring Power of Attorney for my mother, which was put in place after my father died and while my mother still had all her mental faculties. I seem to remember that she was only prevented from managing her own affairs once she lost the capacity to do so and the Power had been registered with the Court of Protection.

 

[Pauline]

I seem to remember that she was only prevented from managing her own affairs once she lost the capacity to do so and the Power had been registered with the Court of Protection.

I am not so familiar with using an EPA though my mother in law had one. An LPA can't be used at all until it is registered with the Office of the Public Guardian, but can be registered while the person concerned (the donor) still has mental capacity, at which point it is up to the donor to choose what they wish the attorney(s) to do and when.

Since it can't be used until registered, some people advise making an LPA well in advance of when it might be needed, which can be done easily online. Once a person has lost capacity they cannot make an LPA or choose who will manage their affairs, it will be up to the Court of Protection to decide who can act on their behalf (a Deputy).

 

[canadianbeth]

As I mentioned earlier, most of my Avon customers were seniors. I noticed that some of those writing cheques had another name besides theirs on them, as I do, although on mine it is also my husband's. They had their daughter's name as well. Obviously, they trusted their daughters not to clear out their accounts but I think it was a "just in case" situation. They were older than even I am.

 

[Sue_3]

Sue, I used to use the same system as you with my very elderly parents. My father had Alzheimer’s and we were anxious not to cause him any suspicions we were taking over his finances. He was reassured to see Mum write the cheque and discuss the breakdown of expenses. He would have retreated further into himself if he had seen this little bit of their independence taken away.

Thank you, I'm glad it's not just me. In our case the elderly parent is still mentally sharper than most of us have ever been, but increasingly frail physically. She is continually frustrated by things she can no longer do for herself and resists every small loss of independence. Her biggest disability has actually been losing her hearing and it is surprising how little understanding of this there is and how little help is available. Most people think that all deafness can be overcome by using hearing aids, but an aid can only amplify the hearing you still have. It cannot do anything to compensate for the hearing you have lost entirely. I have lost count of the number of organisations that, despite being told that she cannot hear anything on the telephone, insist that they MUST speak to her in order to check her identity and to confirm that she is happy for them to speak to one of us. So far we've always found a solution to the most pressing issues, but never without difficulty.