Who was my Great Great Grandfather?

[A. Muse]

William Purcell Married Mary Ann Curl on 24 October 1852 at St Phillips Bethnal Green. Both signed with a X as did the witnesses. I can't find them in the 1861 Census.

Their children appear to be :-
Jane Maria (Pursell) Bap 18 Dec 1853 St Matthias Bethnal Green (bn 25 Nov 1853 20 Spicer Street).
William (Pursell) Born Q4 1855 Whitechapel (Ref 01c page 332 Mother = Curl)
John Thomas Born Q3 1857 Whitechapel (Ref 01c page 373 Mother = Curl)
Mary Ann Born Q4 1859 Whitechapel (Ref 01c Page 392 Mother = Curl)
Isaac Bap 25 Aug 1861 St Matthias Bethnal Green (bn 8 Aug 1851, 25 Brick Lane)
James Henry Bap 15 May 1864 St Matthias Bethnal Green (bn 4 Feb 1864, 5 Brick Lane)
Lydia Born 12 Jun 1866 5 Old Montague Street Whitchapel (Ref 01C Page 341 Mother = CURL)

The family appears to have made good use of the workhouse. In the 1871 census the children are in the district industrial school in East Ham.

So far nothing unusual....I decided to tidy things up and look for the birth certificate of my Great Grandfather Isaac. The only thing I could find was a certificate for Isaac Purcell RADFORD. It showed:-
Born: 15 Aug 1861 17 Brick Lane. Name (first Names) Isaac Purcell.
Father William Radford,
Mother Mary Ann Radford Formerly Ceurl
Informant William Radford, Father 17 Brick Lane, His mark X
Date of registration 25 Sept 1851.

The name Ceurl does not appear elsewhere so I assume it is a mis-spelling of Curl. At first I thought William might have died and that there was a quick convenient marriage between Isaac's baptism and his birth registration. William Purcell appears as the father of the younger children on the baptism of James Henry and the birth cert of Lydia. It appears all parties 'dodged' the 1861 census.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

My imagination has stopped at the blazing row that went something like ' he's not mine he's got ginger hair'......

 

[Tim]

So either a Purcell or Radford then? It could be an alias, I've seen people use different names at different times on different documents. We may never work out why.

Sounds like some DNA tests would help here.

 

[A. Muse]

I'm waiting for a DNA result for my second cousin who is the granddaughter of Isaac. This may or may not give a clue when compared with my DNA result, at lesast we will be looking at the right branch of the tree then.

I have instances in another branch of my tree of a surname being used as a christian name but this was because the couple were not married and subsequently married after the 4th child was born.

My initial reaction was 'is this the same person' but the names and places seem to be too much of a co-incidence. If only I could find the Purcells or a Radford in the 1861 census!

 

[Susan48]

On Findmypast I found a William Radford with extended family, including two Curl visitors, at 75 Wentworth Street, Whitechapel.
Reference: RG09 Piece no. 269 Folio 144 Page 6
Could this be the family you're looking for?

 

[A. Muse]

Thank you very much. It might be the Radfords I'm looking for as there is obviously a link to the Curls and then onto the Purcells.
There are none so blind as.....I had looked at that transcription before I got the birth Certificate, and discounted William Curl on the basis that he was shown as 'lawyer' and the first wife I knew of was Isabella, and there were no Radfords I knew about. The original when looked at closely shows the occupation as 'Sawyer' which ties in much more closely to William Curl''s trade of painter.

This William Curl is probably a younger brother of Mary Ann Curl, and the Jane Curl could be his younger sister, although it shows her as married. This poses more questions as William Curl is shown as 'Married'. I know of 3 marriages for him, the earliest that I know of produces children starting in 1865 going through to 1882. Could this be an earlier marriage and Jane his first wife? More questions than answers, More research to do! Picture of William Curl taken at my Grandfather's wedding in 1910 (if this is the same person).

Many thanks once again. It proves the point that you should always go to the original.

 

[Helen7]

I see there is a marriage of a William Pursell Radford, painter (father Isaac Radford) in Stepney on 22 Sep 1851. Could he be connected?

I'm thinking possible bigamy here, hence the change of name (and father's name) ? But maybe my imagination is running away with me here and there's probably no connection!

 

[A. Muse]

Thank you for that Helen. I can't rule anything out with this family! I haven't started on the Radford connection yet......... I fear another fascinating can of worms.
I find it strange that the second and third marriages* of William Curl took place in the registry office. *or maybe third and fourth!

 

[At home in NZ]

discounted William Curl on the basis that he was shown as 'lawyer' and the first wife I knew of was Isabella

What a coincidence, I have William Curl and Isabella Dawson in one of my trees, in Ancestry. William's relationship to me is father-in-law of great grandaunt, she married William's son Thomas Alfred Curl who was born in Whitechapel.
Any relation to you?

 

[A. Muse]

Yes that is the same William Curl. He has been a headache for me for the past few weeks, 10 Children with Isabella all registered to him and Isabella, but 5 Baptised as Children of his older brother Richard and his wife Jane Orme. Then 2 more marriages. It took a large sheet of wallpaper and a lot of census entries and a lot of head scratching to reach what I think is the right conclusion. Then there is the child registered to them over a year after Isabella died................I'll try to contact you via 'Start a conversation' about William as I don't want to muddy the waters on this thread even more.

 

[Helen7]

I can't rule anything out with this family! I haven't started on the Radford connection yet.

And I've also found that William Pursell Radford (of the aforementioned 1851 marriage) was only baptised at the age of 29, on 19 Sep 1851, three days before his wedding. His baptism at St Dunstan, Stepney gives his birth date as 31 Dec 1821 and his parents as Isaac and Elizabeth Radford of George St Spitalfields. Also Isaac Radford and Elizabeth Pursell published Banns in 1843 (couldn't see a marriage) so IF these are William's parents they were married long after he was born. But you can see why, if William entered into a 2nd marriage with Mary Ann Curl in 1852 whilst his first wife was still alive, he might have used his mother's maiden name as his surname. Maybe he registered his son Isaac under his 'real' surname of Radford (and named him after his father) unbeknownst to wife Mary Ann. As you say, a potential can of worms to investigate...

 

[A. Muse]

Thank you very much for that Helen. Off to do some more Radford digging, hopefully for some answers, rather than more questions. Watch this space....