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Can someone interpret this?

canadianbeth

canadianbeth

LostCousins Star
According to the Ancestry hint it is a marriage between Henry Joice (1560-1616) This particular Henry had three wives; Alice was his first and not my direct ancestor.

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I'm afraid I'm struggling to read Alice's surname - what do Ancestry think it is?
 
According to my records, she was Alice Keene (1560-1588). But I cannot even read where it says Alice, unless it is she in the top row. And that actually says Henry Joice? The name eventually became Joyce but I can see what looks like a dot over the "i". It is a weird way to write Henry though. And what is written before the names escapes me completely.
 
peter said:
what do Ancestry think it is?
Click to expand...
Henry Jone and Alice Keene.
Date 6 Oct 1583.
Yes canadianbeth, it is the top row. If you look at the Index in the image it becomes clearer as to what is where.
The words in front of the names are the date followed by 'has married'. meaning the clergyman performed the marriage.
There is a further entry in Ancestry for a marriage dated 25 Nov 1588, the writing appears to be the same clergyman. It is for Henry Joice and Sarah Dorhe, according to Ancestry, and I am struggling to make out the correct spelling.
 
Yes, Henry married Sarah Doyle in 1588, the same year that his first wife Alice died, leaving three small children. Sarah then had the misfortune to die just eight years later, leaving three more young children. I have no date as to when he married my 10th great-grandmother, Katherine, but she lived to the age of 66, having had five children of her own.

The writing of the English language has definitely changed over the years; I wonder what it will look like in another few hundred, and if our descendants will have the same difficulty reading what we have written.
 
canadianbeth said:
I have no date as to when he married my 10th great-grandmother, Katherine, but she lived to the age of 66, having had five children of her own.
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He had 11 children, par for the course way back then.
Always up for a research challenge I have tried to find the marriage but I can't. I even trawled through a film and still no luck, I think there might be a gap in the years which doesn't help.
I could find Katherine and Henry's children in FamilySearch but I'm sure you've already got their records.
 
Yes, but I have been unable to find out Katherine's surname, no matter how hard I have looked. Her third child, Richard, was my 9th great-grandfather.

One of Alice's children died in infancy and the next child was given the same name of John. They apparently did that a lot back then. One of Sarah's also died in infancy, the same year Sarah died so possibly at the same time.
 
Henry VIII had a very similar "H" in his signature (at least in some of his earlier signatures).
 
I'm not wholly convinced that Alice's surname is Keene. Looking a bit further on in the register there are a couple of examples of Katherine/Katheryne and the 'K's are not really the same as at the start of Alice's surname.

The rest is fairly straightforward - "The vith daye was maryed Henry Joice and Alice".
 
canadianbeth said:
One of Alice's children died in infancy and the next child was given the same name of John. They apparently did that a lot back then.
Click to expand...
It's a practice that continued right up to the end of the 19th century. Most children would have been named after relatives or godparents; unfortunately you'll usually only find the names of godparents in Catholic registers.
 
Interesting that for the fourth entry the vicar wrote 'maried' rather than 'maryed'.
 
Anyone who has problems reading the handwriting above should consider buying the book I reviewed a year ago. There are also some free courses online.
 
Pauline said:
I'm not wholly convinced that Alice's surname is Keene.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify this - I'm not saying that Alice's surname here isn't Keene, only that I am not 100% sure that it is. Having now browsed further through the register, I didn't spot any other capital letters that are quite the same, and it may be that a capital 'K' is the most likely possibility.
 
peter said:
Did you look at the wrong Amazon site?
Click to expand...
I did use the link in the newsletter and I looked at UK, that's why the price is quoted in £'s.
The AU site said it doesn't ship to NZ which I found rather weird. (Blame Covid, everybody else does!)
However, my preference is always UK.
 
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