Birth certificate registration circa 1917

[CarolB08]

Hello all, I have a question that you clever people might be able to answer for me, in 1917 birth registration was compulsory but did it cost parents to have a copy of the certificate and did many parents just not bother to get a paper copy of their childs birth certificate?

 

[jorghes]

I don't know if people necessarily get a copy of a birth certificate when they're registered - I personally can't get one (long story) but I've seen the letter where my mother was ordering copies (with payment) us all (she succeeded with my father and younger brother, and failed with my brother and me), so obviously they didn't get a copy at the time - possibly just an extract.

This is Australia I'm talking about though - my mother had a copy of her own birth certificate, but I presume that may have been obtained prior to her family emigrating.

 

[Helen7]

In England and Wales at that time, as I understand it, a short birth certificate - giving just child's name, date of birth and registration district - was issued to parents free of charge. If they wanted a full certificate - giving details of the parents and a more precise birth location - they had to pay a fee, and many parents didn't bother.

In those days, the short form was sufficient for proof of identity, but since 2008 the long one is needed. Nowadays, parents have to pay for the birth certificate (either short or long) but as they both cost the same (£4), I can't see any point getting the short one.

My own parents' original birth certificates - my father's the short version (1919) and my mother's the long one (1923) - clearly illustrate the difference between the two.

 

[Helen7]

I personally can't get one (long story)

I am very surprised you can't get a copy of your own birth certificate. The system in Australia must work very differently from the UK. I only have my short birth certificate (my parents clearly didn't think it worth paying for the long one at the time!) but I could order a copy of the full certificate from the GRO if I wanted to (on payment of the usual fee of course). But as I know who my parents were and where I was born, it doesn't seem worth it.

 

[Pauline]

Nowadays, parents have to pay for the birth certificate (either short or long) but as they both cost the same (£4), I can't see any point getting the short one.

I think it has just gone up to £11.

 

[Helen7]

I think it has just gone up to £11.

According to the gov.uk website, it's still £4 for a birth certificate at time of registration (which is what I was talking about - apologies if it wasn't clear in my previous post). The £11 is for a copy from the GRO.

 

[Pauline]

I think the page on the government website is slightly behind the times. If you google you will find that local register offices quote the new price of £11 (from 16 Feb). The same price applies for additional death certificates purchased at the time of registration - an increase from £4 to £11.

 

[Helen7]

an increase from £4 to £11.

Wow, that's a big increase! Especially for death certificates, where you often need multiple copies.

 

[Katie Bee]

did many parents just not bother to get a paper copy of their childs birth certificate?

My parents have the short certificate which is headed 'Certificate of Registry of Birth'
1910 and 1912, they give the name and date as well as the Entry number and Register Book number along with the District and Sub-District.
The date of registration and signed by the Registrar or deputy.
I assume this did not need to be paid for.

I think it has just gone up to £11.

believe it or not that has gone down in some places!
Last month, I had to get a copy of my mother's birth certificate from the local register Office rather than the GRO and it cost me £12!
Now it is only £11, if I had known I could have waited.
At the time I noticed there were different prices for copies at registration.
At least everyone is charging the same price, unlike before.

 

[jorghes]

I am very surprised you can't get a copy of your own birth certificate. The system in Australia must work very differently from the UK. I only have my short birth certificate (my parents clearly didn't think it worth paying for the long one at the time!) but I could order a copy of the full certificate from the GRO if I wanted to (on payment of the usual fee of course). But as I know who my parents were and where I was born, it doesn't seem worth it.

Well, the first problem is that I wasn't born in Australia - if I had been then I probably wouldn't have an issue getting my birth certificate. My parents were working in a developing country when my older brother and I were born and registered our births with the Australia High Commission - both my brother and I have extracts (what you refer to as "short version") of that, outlining what information is in that register book (it even includes the entry number!). I also have an extract from the hospital where I was born.

I have been, on and off, trying to get a birth certificate, as has my older brother. I have rung the Australian end and they simply told me to go to the relevant High Commission, my brother (who works in the country in which we were born) has been to the High Commission... who told him to contact the Australian side. Finally, the High Commission admitted that they had lost the register book.

In Australia, I am allowed to use my passport (I've had one since I was about 4, and was on my mother's before that) instead of a birth certificate when proving my identity. However, I want to access my ability to get a British one, and as far as I know, they want my birth certificate!

 

[CarolB08]

Thank you all for the replies, I was asking because my Mother never had a birth certificate this may have been because she was adopted by my Grandfather, but I would have thought that she would have had an adoption certificate or similar.

 

[Helen7]

My parents were working in a developing country when my older brother and I were born and registered our births with the Australia High Commission

Oh, I see how that might cause problems if they have lost the register book! And I believe you are correct in needing your full birth certificate to apply for a British passport nowadays. My son's partner - who is Australian - needed her full birth certificate and that of her father (who was born in the UK) as well as her parents' marriage certificate to get a British passport. She travels on the Australian or British passport, whichever is more convenient.
I too have always used my passport as proof of identity.

 

[jorghes]

Oh, I see how that might cause problems if they have lost the register book! And I believe you are correct in needing your full birth certificate to apply for a British passport nowadays. My son's partner - who is Australian - needed her full birth certificate and that of her father (who was born in the UK) as well as her parents' marriage certificate to get a British passport. She travels on the Australian or British passport, whichever is more convenient.
I too have always used my passport as proof of identity.

I have a feeling a visit to the British Consulate is going to be order for me to get a British passport - to see if they'll allow me to use either of my extracts (the extract of the register actually, unlike most extracts, gives my birth date, registration date, name and occupation of father, maiden name of mother and the names of my siblings at the time...), my current or past Australian passports, my mother's previous passport (the one that I appear on), her marriage and birth certificates and possibly even her, herself (she's volunteered to go in with me).

Apparently there's a chance I can claim British citizenship as well as a passport (my older brother keeps checking it out, and is annoyed because he couldn't do the same), to the point which I wouldn't be able to serve in Australia's federal parliament (there was quite the citizenship fiasco last year, as dual citizens are not allowed to serve).

 

[Helen7]

I have a feeling a visit to the British Consulate is going to be order for me to get a British passport

Sounds like you have more than enough documentary evidence available - good luck!

My son's partner now has dual citizenship and I remember we had the conversation last year about not being eligible to serve in parliament - not that that bothers her in the slightest, and in fact she wants to come to the UK, if ever my son manages to get a job here (he's been working in NSW since 2012).

 

[Helen7]

Thank you all for the replies, I was asking because my Mother never had a birth certificate this may have been because she was adopted by my Grandfather, but I would have thought that she would have had an adoption certificate or similar.

A birth certificate should still have been issued for her, and - assuming it was a legal adoption - there should be an adoption certificate too. Have you looked at this site ?

 

[jorghes]

Sounds like you have more than enough documentary evidence available - good luck!

My son's partner now has dual citizenship and I remember we had the conversation last year about not being eligible to serve in parliament - not that that bothers her in the slightest, and in fact she wants to come to the UK, if ever my son manages to get a job here (he's been working in NSW since 2012).

I found the entire thing very funny because they’d almost have a field day with my possible ancestry - especially since they’d probably have issue with the possible chance I could claim three citizenships (I can’t, as my birth country doesn’t attribute citizenship by birth).

 

[Pauline]

A birth certificate should still have been issued for her, and - assuming it was a legal adoption - there should be an adoption certificate too.

Formal adoption, as we know it today, did not exist in England and Wales before 1928, so there wouldn't be an adoption certificate. Possibly a full birth certificate was issued at registration in 1917 but was later "lost" to cover up the adoption.

 

[Pauline]

believe it or not that has gone down in some places!

I can still remember the days when ordering certificates by post was from the GRO was hugely expensive, even if you had the full reference. I can't find any details of the fees but my memory is that in the early 1990s it cost £5.50 to order a certificate in person at St Catherine's House/Family Records Centre, and it would be posted out to you in a couple of days.

However, to order by post from the GRO cost either £12 or £13 and certificates took 6-8 weeks to arrive. Sometimes it was possible to order certificates from local registrars but some wouldn't issue 'family history' certificates, and it wasn't always possible to work out which office had a particular record. Often we used agents who would charge a small fee to order the certificate in person on your behalf - which was much cheaper and quicker than ordering direct from the GRO.

 

[peter]

As I recall, when I began researching in 2002 it was £6 or £6.50 to order a certificate at the Family Records Centre, and about the same if I went to a local register office (in those days you got it on the spot, with very little waiting and no surcharges). The earliest orders I can trace from the GRO were in November 2003 and cost £7 per certificate.