Pedigree Collapse

[emjay]

I'm curious what "Alarm Bells" does it set off. I wasn't aware I'd programmed any audible alerts Seriously though there should be nothing unusual about having non direct lines in your tree nothing that FTAnalyzer would get upset about. If it is then it could be a bug that needs fixed?

Perhaps "Alarm Bells" was a bit strong more like prompts to enter missing data.

 

[Tim]

I have a number of instances where 2 brothers married 2 sisters.

And one very unusual one where a brother and sister from one family married 2 non related people.
The brother and sister died. The surviving partners then got married. And yes, they had kids, I gave up trying to work out how the kids were related to each other and the rest of the family.

 

[Carla]

I may be a bit pathetic but I do trace people at quite remove from my line.

You are not pathetic at all! I would say you are just very passionate about history and the past. I have found out some wonderful and interesting facts about the area and community my ancestors lived in by doing the same thing. Sometimes when I get a block, or get bored (and sorry but I do admit to getting bored by researching my ancestors when I seem to be getting nowhere fast), I take a look at the ancestors of someone who has married into my ancestral line. I have found out all sorts, like both sides of the extended family (parents, brothers, sisters, etc) all appearing to move to a different nearby village, the families of both married couples living in the same house, two brothers of one family marrying two sisters in another family, finding children of one family member staying with grandparents of another family member that married into that family, and so much more. It has helped me find members of my ancestral family I didn't even know existed, so I actually think of it as extending my research details (and giving me a little light relief when I am feeling mentally whacked out from hunting for the same name over and over again )

 

[Tim]

I also find it useful to give a particular problem a rest. Quite often answers appear when using a refreshed pair of eyes.

 

[Bob Spiers]

I may be a bit pathetic but I do trace people at quite remove from my line..

Then I will be pathetic with you, as I too delve into spousal (and sibling) connections. The degree of 'remove' (as succinctly put) diminishes somewhat after 2nd generation families; although not entirely.

In my wife's tree -which I research separately - she often chides saying she has no interest in knowing about (for example) a cousins spouse and their immediate family, but it is the way I research my own, and so I tell her it is a bonus for which I make no charge.

 

[Susan48]

I also have one line of ancestors from a village where everyone of my family surname is descended from one couple in the early 1700s, so I have done a mini one-name study for the village.

I have also done a similar study for one line of my father's family in Colchester. There were several dozen of them listed in the censuses and I had a hunch they must all be connected. It was a real thrill when I found the marriage in the parish records that confirmed my hunch! Interestingly, the surname dwindled in the town during the 20th century, with a few coming in who had been born elsewhere. I'm doubtful that those who are left are any relation at all. A useful and interesting source for confirming parentage of males before civil registration is the Index to Admissions of Colchester Freemen, available on SEAX, the Essex Register Office's online catalogue. Young men had the right to become freemen on reaching the age of 21 if their father and/or grandfather was a freeman, so both names are given. Sorry! - I've strayed from the topic.

 

[Chris from Stansted]

I have discovered a few examples of Pedigree Collapse in my tree. My parental great-grandparents were 3rd cousins, thus two of my 5th great-grandparents were brothers. I have also found a number of my non direct ancestors marrying first cousins plus one ancestral uncle who I believe married his niece. A child of this couple went on to marry a first cousins. I have ancestors from a rural hamlets on the Isle of Wight were there are high incidences of intermarrying among neighbours with several generations intermarrying. The 1851 census of Roud shows that a high percentage of the people in this hamlets were related although not necessarily directly. I wonder how many researchers have identified intermarrying within their trees.

 

[Pauline]

I would guess most people come across marriages between cousins of some degree in their ancestry. I'd always felt I might be unusual in finding no pedigree collapse in my ancestry, although I have since discovered I descend from 2 sisters born in the late 16th century - the linking marriage was between 3rd cousins and I have often wondered if they knew they were related.

There are a couple of other lines where I suspect I may have cousins of some degree marrying but have so far been unable to track down any records to establish this, but again these are a fair way back in my ancestry.

I have found more recent cousin marriages in side shoots of my tree, and I understand that some non-conformists actively encouraged cousin marriage. In one strongly non-conformist family numerous cousin marriages in successive generations has led to all kinds of convoluted relationships. And one of them married his niece. But although these folk are blood relatives, they are not actual ancestors.

 

[peter]

So far I haven't come across any examples in my tree of close cousins marrying, and none of the instances of distant cousins marrying that I've identified so far are in my direct line. What does seem to be much more common is the situation where two brothers marry two sisters, or where one brother marries two sisters (the second marriage taking place after the first sister has died). There are at least two instances of each in my direct line, and whilst it doesn't lead to pedigree collapse it does mean that I am genetically more closely related to some of my cousins than would normally be the case.

 

[jorghes]

I have an example of pedigree collapse in my direct line, within my Jewish portion of my tree - a pair of first cousins who married (my 4th great-grandparents on my paternal grandmother's side); their mothers were sisters. It can get a little confusing when you realise the husband chose to take his mother's surname rather than his father's, and they were in the midst of anglicising their names as well... The sisters were born in Holland and their families seemed to have been immigrating into London at the time.

Ironically, on the same side of the family, there are a bunch of extended family members who intermarried. Perhaps first, maybe 2nd cousins and an example of what seems of a niece/great niece marrying what looks to be a great uncle (this pair is not related by blood, but rather by marriage, but it's also a bit strange!). This particular branch of the family were most definitely non-conformists (Baptists I believe), so this could have been encouraged in some ways, but it was also a massive family.

 

[Katie Bee]

My paternal great grandparents were first cousins.

 

[Gillian]

I have the following complication: my great grandfather had two wives. The first was Elizabeth, the second was Rebecca. Wife One Elizabeth had a brother John. Wife Two Rebecca was the sister of brother John's wife (Eliza). And to top it all, Mr P the father of Rebecca and Eliza married Maria another sister of John (who had already married Mr P's daughter Eliza and was therefore his son in law). It's a good thing my great-grandfather's name was Theophilus; it probably helped him in trying to sort out his relations.

 

[Gillian]

I have the following complication: my great grandfather had two wives. The first was Elizabeth, the second was Rebecca. Wife One Elizabeth had a brother John. Wife Two Rebecca was the sister of brother John's wife (Eliza). And to top it all, Mr P the father of Rebecca and Eliza married Maria another sister of John (who had already married Mr P's daughter Eliza and was therefore his son in law). It's a good thing my great-grandfather's name was Theophilus; it probably helped him in trying to sort out his relations.

Please, why is my complicated family relationship still waiting for moderator approval? Don't you believe me?

 

[Tim]

Please, why is my complicated family relationship still waiting for moderator approval? Don't you believe me?

lol. Sorry! I do believe you, but I seem to be the only moderator that approves posts, and I'm out of the country!! But I am sitting in the lounge having free cocktails and food so its not all bad.

 

[Katie Bee]

But I am sitting in the lounge having free cocktails and food so its not all bad

It's all right for some! Some of us can't sleep!

 

[Gillian]

Thank you for your approval, Tim. Lucky you - re the free cocktails etc. I, in contrast, am looking out of the window at sleet coming down almost horizontally in a brutal wind!

 

[Bob Spiers]

lol. Sorry! I do believe you, but I seem to be the only moderator that approves posts, and I'm out of the country!! But I am sitting in the lounge having free cocktails and food so its not all bad.

I thought you had gone off the radar Tim, and Gillian is not alone in questioning moderation delays, I wondered the same thing a week ago, just never got round to seeking a reason. When I next thought about it, low and behold it had been moderated. Anyway glad you're enjoying the free lounge drinks, been a while since I did the same.

 

[Pauline]

I have the following complication

I have something a bit similar in my tree, though not quite so involved. My 2 x gt grandparents married in 1865 and 4 years later became step brother and sister, with her half siblings becoming his step siblings. It's probably not that unusual an occurence, and in this case his widowed mother married her widowed step father.

 

[Tim]

Back in the UK for 2 weeks, I'll try and pop in every day.

 

[Britjan]

Back in the UK for 2 weeks, I'll try and pop in every day.

I think this the same subject as a former thread about cousins marrying Tim so I've just posted to it so that you can check it out and perform a marriage ceremony if necessary.