Wills consultation December 2023

[peter]

I did ask for this to be provided, as its lack makes it hard to propose alternatives to their ideas, and thus biases the consultation. I have had no reply of any kind.

Perhaps an FOI request is called for? They are supposed to respond in 20 working days, so just enough time to get the answer and circulate it before the consultation closes.

 

[DavidF]

I am currently working on a project with the Society of Genealogists that is transcribing pedigrees into GEDCOM files that can then be viewed online with the pedigree images.
One I did recently included a page that was compiled by executors of an English will to confirm the beneficiaries of the will. I'm assuming this was included with the will as accompanying documents. This particular document included the name of every first cousin of the deceased (including birth & married names), their mother's name & maiden name, their grandmother's name & maiden name, where they were living at the time of death and their date of birth.
It was a goldmine of information for a researcher that would be lost if accompanying documentation was not kept.

 

[peter]

I am currently working on a project with the Society of Genealogists that is transcribing pedigrees into GEDCOM files that can then be viewed online with the pedigree images.
One I did recently included a page that was compiled by executors of an English will to confirm the beneficiaries of the will. I'm assuming this was included with the will as accompanying documents. This particular document included the name of every first cousin of the deceased (including birth & married names), their mother's name & maiden name, their grandmother's name & maiden name, where they were living at the time of death and their date of birth.
It was a goldmine of information for a researcher that would be lost if accompanying documentation was not kept.

I don't know whether that sort of information would ordinarily be submitted during the probate process - perhaps someone with a legal background knows the answer? But I'm sure there will be many documents that we wouldn't have seen previously thanks to the Probate Service relying on 'office copies' of will (as Pauline has mentioned).

The idea that all of the submitted documents might be digitised and made available is exciting!

 

[Pauline]

I don't know whether that sort of information would ordinarily be submitted during the probate process

Not with post 1858 wills, as far as I know, but you do sometimes find accounts associated with older wills or administrations, which may of necessity include details of all relatives entitled to inherit. Similar information may appear in the death duty registers, or you may find later accounts made by executors which have been deposited in archives.

 

[Stuart]

I have two of those executor's family trees too, and I agree about how useful they are. But I don't see how this kind of material is likely to appear in the probate court's archives. A will is proved as written, now as in the past, accepting it as valid, and confirming who will be executors. That's the end of the probate registry's involvement; the administration of the will and estate is left to the executors. Accounts are given to the residual legatees, but not filed officially anywhere.

If parts of the will failed, for example because named legatees had died and nothing in the will took account of that, then that part was distributed as an intestacy (i.e. as if there was no will). But the work of finding all the current inheritors, by tracing he family tree, all happens after probate. That tree may not even be copied as part of the account, though the relationships are likely to be there in written form.

In a few rare cases, a will or the grant of probate is contested in a court case. Some of those are in the probate court, though others were heard in chancery. The consultation document is not very clear about whether probate court case documents are part of the current "kept for ever" archive, but if the grant was in question I guess they must be.

 

[Stuart]

MoJ have published their response to the consultation (on 8th January). It's worth reading in detail, but the main points can be quoted here:

9. A total of almost 1600 responses to the consultation paper were received. Of these, a large majority were from individual members of the public, with a number of these stating that they were family historians or genealogists. There were representative responses from a number of organisations; particularly legal professional bodies, archive and records management professional bodies, historical associations and family history societies.

10. It was very clear that the consultation had generated considerable interest and concern for many people who were concerned about the preservation of original documents with historic and emotional value. The large majority of responses vehemently opposed any destruction of original wills. Respondents pointed to a number of factors, that included the intrinsic link to the past that wills represent but also the provenance of an original document as legal proof of a testator’s wishes.

...
120. The Government accepts the compelling case that has been made by respondents and recognises the equality aspects and has therefore determined not to proceed with any reforms that involve the destruction of original wills and supporting documents currently designated for permanent preservation.

121. There are, however, some consequences of this decision in terms of the ability to systematically digitise the archive collection of some 110 million paper documents and meeting the ongoing costs of the paper archive.

122. At present digitisation is confined to wills submitted with new probate applications (since 2021), and where requests are received to make inspect a will or grant of probate. This will continue to be the practice, but any systematic programme of digitising older wills would have to be considered alongside other calls and priorities on the Ministry’s resources.

123. Similarly, the decision to preserve original wills does not address the concerns about the large and increasing costs of preserving the very extensive original will archive (which dates back to 1858). The current cost of obtaining a copy of a will is £1.50 which does not cover the costs of providing this service and does not represent full cost recovery. It is also significantly cheaper than copies of obtaining comparable public records (for example, the fee for birth or death certificates is £12.50).

124. The Government will therefore be giving further consideration to the fees charged for copies of wills and grants of probate.

The relevant consultation page is here, and the PDF document here.