New Program Idea or New FTAnalyzer Report?

[Tim]

Would it be possible to create a program (a lot like FTAnalyzer) that imports your gedcom file and produces a file/output that shows by household, the relationship to the root person (Blood, Direct, marriage etc), the Ahnentafel number and the census info (Piece, Folio, Book, page or Schedule number)?

I think this would be very useful for people who are new to LostCousins, and who have not entered any data. This report would provide all the data they need in one place to enable easy data entry into LC.

It could also have a column that showed whether you had already added the people to LC based on using Custom Tags or Facts.

Alexander, maybe this is actually just another report that could be added to the already excellent FTAnalyzer Program? It's a bit like your current census report?

It does look like the census ref data is in the FTM2012 gedcom file, the SOUR @S41@ denoting the 1851 census?

1 SEX M
1 FAMS @F596@
0 @I470@ INDI
1 NAME Charles Jeremiah /Blank/
2 SOUR @S41@
3 PAGE Class: HO107; Piece: 2134; Folio: 123; Page: 49; GSU roll: 16100-16101

 

[Tim]

Hmmmm, note to self, must think these things through a bit more.

Ages maybe an issue but the biggest issue is probably the name, need to check further to see if the transcribed name is in the gedcom file.

 

[Tim]

Can't see the transcribed name in the gedcom, still getting the data in one place would be useful.
And who knows, there maybe a way of getting the transcribed data from FMP or Ancestry.

 

[Alexander Bisset]

Thanks for the ideas Tim. There are a number of issues however.

Unfortunately there is no uniform place in a GEDCOM file to store a census reference and there are a massive array of possible ways of recording the census reference; from not at all; to a webpage link (no actual reference just a URL); to a recording a cut n paste from a Ancestry/FMP/FamilySearch page where the format is different in each; to a hand typed census reference that isn't consistently recorded. Some people will have put the data in a note, some in a description on a census fact, some like myself have the info (at least partially) in a source record etc.

Since the crux of the LC system is an accurate census reference, putting aside issues of transcription names for now, if there is nowhere specific in a GEDCOM file for a census reference to be stored then NO program can hope to read this data as there is nowhere it is specifically stored.

Since the GEDCOM doesn't store the census reference (at least not consistently) then no report can be produced. Peter and I are however investigating the possibility of tackling the issue from the opposite direction taking the results of a search on one of the primary websites and reading that data for the user.

 

[peter]

I suspect that some people might be incentivised to start entering their relatives if there was a program that simply listed the relatives who were alive in 1881. If it also showed the relationships (and Ancestor Numbers where applicable) that would be a bonus.

Is that something that's feasible? I'm mindful of the fact that about 40% of members haven't entered a single relative yet, so anything we can do to kickstart them is worth considering.

 

[Tim]

Peter, you'll be please to know that Alexander has that very report in FTAnalyzer. I've attached a sample that you can see.

The program has lots of useful reports, not just the Lost Cousin report. Everyone should try it.

 

[peter]

Peter, you'll be please to know that Alexander has that very report in FTAnalyzer. I've attached a sample that you can see.

The program has lots of useful reports, not just the Lost Cousin report. Everyone should try it.

Thanks for the reminder - I downloaded Alexander's program back in May but because I wasn't getting any results I assumed that the Gedcoms that Genopro produces aren't compatible. However having just spent another half hour trying different things I've realised that the reason I didn't get any results is because FTAnalyzer was using the wrong starter person (is there some way of changing this?).

Fortunately it doesn't matter whether I can use the utility - what matters is whether other people can use it! Do we know which family tree programs output compatible Gedcoms?

 

[Tim]

.. the reason I didn't get any results is because FTAnalyzer was using the wrong starter person (is there some way of changing this?).

Yes. In the individuals listing, if you right click on a person, you can then make that person the root person. Obviously that doesn't correct the error in your own tree.

Alexander can answer the gedcom question with more clarity than I, but the answer should be that all family tree programs should work with FTAnalyzer. However, some programs are more gedcom standard compliant than others, e.g. GenoPro didn't output the census data. But after some discussions, they created a report that could be used but it meant entering the data in a very specific manner. (It was this reason why I now also use FTM2012)

So we know it works for FTM2012, GenoPro (if you do the extra steps) and I believe other members have used it on other programs.

 

[Alexander Bisset]

Peter, you can change the starter person on the individuals tab. Select the person you want right click and select change root person. This then recalculates all the relationships relative to the root person so that the reporting will work from then on.

The GEDCOM specification specifies that the first person in a GEDCOM file is the root person, most genealogy programs support this, some don't. I think Genopro does adhere to the standard though. The right click to select your own root person gets round this failing of the (usually older) genealogy programs.

Tim can advise on how to get GenoPro to output the GEDCOM fact codes CENS for census entries and how he flagged people as entered onto Lost Cousins. The program then uses that flag to clean up the lists so that you get meaningful feedback from the program as you update your data in GenoPro and then export a new GEDCOM.

 

[Alexander Bisset]

I suspect that some people might be incentivised to start entering their relatives if there was a program that simply listed the relatives who were alive in 1881. If it also showed the relationships (and Ancestor Numbers where applicable) that would be a bonus.

Is that something that's feasible? I'm mindful of the fact that about 40% of members haven't entered a single relative yet, so anything we can do to kickstart them is worth considering.

To clarify Peter, my program does two things in this area.

1. It allows users to see what relatives were alive in 1881 for which they have yet to enter a census record (defined as a GEDCOM tag of CENS or RESI ie:census or residency fact). Exactly as you suggest it shows who is alive it shows the relationships, it shows their expected ages, possible locations, and groups them in likely family groups. So all you suggest and more.
2. It allows users to see those relatives they have ALREADY found on a census and gives them a report of who should be entered onto Lost Cousins. The Lost Cousins report shows AHNENTAFEL numbers for entry onto the site as well as relationships.

Thus it is an iterative process, use the program to help list people to find on the relevant census, then after updating that data into your chosen family history program my program will give you a list of people you have found on that census. If you then enter a LOSTC event tag into your family history program my program will then treat those people as entered into Lost Cousins and so the list shrinks (hopefully to zero to say you've entered everyone you have found). You can then re-run an earlier census report say people missing from the 1871 census, set out to find your families on that census enter that data and realise you now have new children you didn't know about who might have married by 1881, so you re-run the 1881 report and have a list of new people to find. Once you find them you have new people to enter to Lost Cousins and so it grows.
As you run the reports so you see what data you are missing, as you enter that data the missing people vanish from the reports often to be replaced by new siblings and side branches you found from earlier census. I strong advise people to adopt this approach as you have often said in the newsletters Peter its the siblings and side branches sometimes from the previous generation brought forward that will be more likely to generate more matches on Lost Cousins.

The idea is precisely as you suggest to make it simple for people to identify relatives alive on the various Lost Cousins census years so that they can have the maximum support to identify and enter their ancestors on the site.

 

[peter]

Thanks, Alexander, I'll try that out.

Tim, I suspect that Genopro allocates numbers in the order of entry. so I wouldn't describe it as an error in Genopro. It's really my fault - when I created my Genopro trees over a decade ago I carelessly failed to predict that Alexander would one day write such a useful utility.

 

[Alexander Bisset]

Tut tut such lack of foresight Peter!!

PS. There is a new version v1.5.3.0 released this morning that has Tim's new colour coded LostCousins data entry report for testing.

 

[Tim]

Tim, I suspect that Genopro allocates numbers in the order of entry. so I wouldn't describe it as an error in Genopro. It's really my fault - when I created my Genopro trees over a decade ago I carelessly failed to predict that Alexander would one day write such a useful utility.

Peter, This is how you can set the index person in GenoPro, and so you wouldn't need to manually do it each time in FTA.