MASTERCLASS: finding birth certificates - birth not registered

[Pauline]

The Registrar General at the time clearly didn't think it was compulsory for parents to register births

As you said in #13 above. And as I have made clear, I am not disputing this aspect of the Act.

I think we should call it a day on this discussion now.

 

[peter]

I agree that what I wrote in post #2 that "It wasn't compulsory to register births until 1875" was technically incorrect, because only a registrar can make an entry in the register, and it was compulsory for a registrar to register a birth on request from the parents. But in normal speech, when we talk about "registering a birth", we mean the process of notifying the registrar so that they can make an entry in the register. Indeed, that is how the phrase is used on the GOV.UK website.

Similarly, when I wrote in my Masterclass that "it wasn't until 1875 that there was a penalty for failing to register a birth" this was also technically incorrect, but if I had written "it wasn't until 1875 that there was a penalty for failing to notify the local registrar of a birth" I doubt that it would have been interpreted any differently by readers.

 

[Kate]

This debate is interesting but I would still like to find the birth registration or even christening for my husband's ancestor Selina Fricker. She is well documented on the census records and I think her birth would be early 1850s. She was brought up by her grandparents, although some family trees record them as being parents. Her father was Mark Fricker but he didn't marry until some years later, having nipped off to the army about the time Selina was born and been discharged in Scotland , well away from Camberwell, his home. As there is no evidence of a marriage before Selina's birth, my theory is that he diappeared when he realised the girl was expecting, possibly the mother died and Selina was given to her grand parents to raise. If there was a birth registration or christening, it could be in any name you like! There is a Selina born about the right time and place but on checking, that was someone else.

 

[peter]

This debate is interesting but I would still like to find the birth registration or even christening for my husband's ancestor Selina Fricker

You don't say what surname you were looking under, but unless the mother pretended to be married it would have been registered under her name, whatever that was at the time. If it was registered at all, which given the circumstances it may not have been.

 

[Kate]

If I knew the mother's name it would help but I haven't a clue! I might find something using DNA and by buying possible death certificates for potential mothers but it's all a bit airy fairy and not worth the cost. I may never know.

 

[peter]

When you said she was brought up by her grandparents, I assumed you meant her maternal grandparents - it was fairly unusual for paternal grandparents to help out. Since you don't know what the mother's name was, what makes you certain that they were the father's parents?

But you're right that DNA is the answer - nobody can be certain of their research unless it has been verified by DNA, and solving mysteries like this is a bonus.

 

[Kate]

Yes she was brought up by her paternal grandparents.I accepted that because they refer to the relationship on the census, when she married she named her father and he was the son of her grandparents according to his christening record. I hadn't thought about it being unusual for paternal grandparents to help out but they must've been confident that the baby was his to have done so. Of course there could be a marriage that I haven't yet found but other trees do not include a marriage so it can't be obvious.

 

[peter]

Yes she was brought up by her paternal grandparents. I accepted that because they refer to the relationship on the census, when she married she named her father and he was the son of her grandparents according to his christening record. I hadn't thought about it being unusual for paternal grandparents to help out but they must've been confident that the baby was his to have done so. Of course there could be a marriage that I haven't yet found but other trees do not include a marriage so it can't be obvious.

I think it would be helpful if we could see the evidence - sometimes a fresh pair of eyes will spot something,

 

[Kate]

Thanks, I will have to sort it out and post it.

 

[Pauline]

Thanks, I will have to sort it out and post it.

I did have a quick look a few days ago using the information you've already posted, but I didn't find anything that seemed likely to be useful. I did notice that Selina's presumed* grandfather appeared to have married twice to women with the same forename, but I expect you are already aware of that.

* I say 'presumed' because it was not unusual for people born illegitimate to invent a father when they married, and sometimes they 'borrowed' the name of someone they knew.

 

[Kate]

Thanks, I did know about the two Sarahs. In the census he says they are Selina's grandparents. Obviously they may not have been; maybe they just adopted her and when she married she gave their son as her father? Another possibility that I hadn't considered. When hher daughter married she gave the names of two different fathers for each marriage, one being Selina's father in law! Perhaps I shouldn't trust a word they said! (As grand parents they were older people so I don't know if they would have wanted to adopt a child that wasn't related?) I think DNA is the only chance, but it would have to be one of my children.

 

[peter]

Perhaps I shouldn't trust a word they said!

Never trust any records - even if it's the best evidence you have, that doesn't make it true. I have someone in my tree who named the same father at both marriages - but the person named never existed.