A Tale of Two Roberts

[patzy]

Stephen Crabb (bap 1736 Netherby & Salwayash, d Loders 1813) married twice. First to Ann Jessop in 1759 and after she died in 1767 to Mary Brown at Loders in 1772.

By Mary Brown he had 11 offspring. These include:
Robert baptised Loders in 1785 -I call him Robert(1) and
Robert baptised Loders in 1787. -Robert(2)

There are three years of baptisms on a single opening of the Netherby baptism register and they are both on it in the correct years, with their twin sisters Ann and Mary who were baptised in 1784 and both died that same year.

I thought at first that the same child had been baptised twice or some such. But both of them grew up to marry and raise families!

Robert(1) married Rebecca Cole 27 May 1806; Robert(2) married Maria Honiborn (there are various spellings of her surname) 13 September at Loders.

Robert(1) was buried 9 May 1858 at Loders.

Robert(2) was buried 7 April 1882 at Loders.

So how did the same family have two children with the same name one after the other.

Was it:

Some member of the family had an illegitimate child that was taken in by Stephen & Mary as soon as it was born.

Robert(1) was thought to be at death's door when Robert(2) was born and they were re-using the name (as happened a lot). But Robert(1) recovered.

Or did the Vicar get hopelessly mixed up. There were heaps of Crabbs in Loders at the time and they were very prolific. This would not really account for the father's name in the marriages of both Roberts being Stephen.

 

[peter]

Good to see that at the age of 96 in 1881 Robert (2) was still shown as a farm labourer! His age on the census makes him Robert (1), so did he have his sibling's baptism certificate, or was the same boy baptised twice? Or is the age on the census simply exaggerated - old people tended to add on extra years.

How do we know from their marriages that the father of both Roberts was Stephen? Fathers names weren't shown in the marriage register until 1837, and none of the witnesses had the surname Crabb. So is it possible that the Robert who married in September 1807 was the Robert Crabb born in the adjoining parish of Netherbury in February 1789?

Just a thought.....

 

[SuzanneD]

It's definitely possible that the two baptisms are the same child. I have one case in my own tree - identified by rigorously tracking all the people of that name in surrounding parishes into marriages, censuses and burials. The clincher was discovering that his father was in prison at the time of the first baptism, explaining why he might have been "done" again later at the same time a younger sibling was baptised. In figuring it out I had to separate him from a cousin of the same name and similar age. Do any of the census records have visitors or neighbours that might help identify who is who?

 

[patzy]

...How do we know from their marriages that the father of both Roberts was Stephen? Fathers names weren't shown in the marriage register until 1837, and none of the witnesses had the surname Crabb. So is it possible that the Robert who married in September 1807 was the Robert Crabb born in the adjoining parish of Netherbury in February 1789?
Just a thought.....

Good points, Peter. Thank you.
The Loders branch of the Crabb family, for me, is hard to follow. There are so many of them. When I first started on the family tree and saw all those Crabbs in Loders, I thought, "Thank goodness I'm not related to them". - Then I found a link, and every now and then I have another go at sorting them out.
If, indeed the Robert Crabb in question is the one from Netherbury in Feb 1789, he is probably in my direct line somewhere.
I already have a lot of Roberts.
I shall persevere. (I almost wrote "I shall overcome". )

 

[Liberty]

I am being tantalised at present by a Richard Symonds - or possibly two. My 4G GF Valentine Symonds was the son of Richard and Elizabeth, one of a string of siblings christened in Toft Monks, Norfolk. Within the date range is a Richard Bitson Symonds, parents Richard and Anne. My cautious reaction was that this was an error over the mother's name - except that there WAS a marriage of a Richard and Ann in Toft Monks a few years earlier. This is so far back in time that not all details are laid out neatly, but I would *guess* that the two Richards were possibly cousins of some sort. The tantalising element is that 'a' Richard Symonds born Toft Monks - consistently giving his age 2 years earlier than Richard Bitson - went on to have lot of descendants.
There seem to be a couple of possibilities - one being that Richard Bitson (probably distantly related to me) dropped the middle part of his name and always said he was older than he was. Another is that Richard + Elizabeth (my direct ancestors) had a son Richard whose christening is not recorded but was a few years earlier than Richard Bitson. (And probably a few other interpretations.) I'm not sure which requires least stretching of the known facts.......

 

[patzy]

I commiserate.
My two Roberts each had a lot of kids. I shall just keep them going and attach whichever to the correct branch if/when I eventually sort it out.

 

[Liberty]

I commiserate.
My two Roberts each had a lot of kids. I shall just keep them going and attach whichever to the correct branch if/when I eventually sort it out.

I've been there with a few of my distant relatives, and achieved enlightenment in a couple of cases.
I would repeat Peter's advice in the last-but-one newsletter. That is: Note witnesses at weddings, sometimes it can provide the breakthrough. Also, track everybody through as many censuses etc as possible as occasionally there is a nephew/visitor/boarder that allows you to link that household with another.

 

[patzy]

.....That is: Note witnesses at weddings, sometimes it can provide the breakthrough. Also, track everybody through as many censuses etc as possible as occasionally there is a nephew/visitor/boarder that allows you to link that household with another.

I have been doing that and I have a lot of people to try to follow up on.

I agree that wedding witnesses can be really helpful. A few times a witness at one wedding has turned up as bride or groom at another. And if, in the case of a female, the first name of a witness matches one of the family it can give a clue to a marriage.

So, I shall keep going with my Roberts and one day, one day.....