LIVER AND BACON WITH OR WITHOUT ONIONS - THE AMBROSIA OF THE GODS

[Bob Spiers]

I wish family mysteries could be cleared up so quickly, but in the course of half a day since replying to Phil, I received a PM from a subscriber to the BHF about the 'Ackerdock' query posted long ago and re-activated by my cousin. In the PM he explains there was indeed a proper AQUEDUCT about a quarter of a mile back from the Drawbridge. This is the Aqueduct that later morphed into Ackerdock(s).

He reminded of the of the very tall bridge over the road that ran a right angles to the canal and well before the drawbridge? After the bridge was a ford that was fun to ride through on our bikes and hills either side for (what would later be called) 'off-road' biking. Well it had been a very long time, but I did indeed recall the road, the very tall bridge, and especially the water ford and the fun had when cycling up and down the hills. He then said that road was Aqueduct Road and the bridge supported an aqueduct over which ran the canal.

He accepted that if cycling along the canal towpath one might not be aware that the canal was at high elevation to the roads below and perhaps not take in the bridge rampart at the side of the tow path. I had also not considered the fact that Drawbridge road was a hill that one needed to ascend to reach the canal level.

So bottom line my assumption that Ackerdock was a corruption of Aqueduct was correct, but I now know the drawbridge played no part except for its location at the Ackerdocks.

 

[Heather]

Isn't it amazing how one thing leads to another for example how on earth did liver and onions change into aqueducts ? So glad you reached a happy ending Bob.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Isn't it amazing how one thing leads to another for example how on earth did liver and onions change into aqueducts ? So glad you reached a happy ending Bob.

Yes I was beginning to wonder when someone would make that comment. But the Liver & Onion theme has (like Aqueduct) morphed from food related items, through linguistic terms and pronunciations(OZ v NZ), onto place names and pronunciations; which is where it largely ended.

I was thinking of posting something that accorded with my original 'food' theme as I have just completed the last item on my cooking Wish List: not quite 'Boiled beef and Carrots' but close. My first Beef Stew with Pearl Barley and Dumplings. It might have completed the circle, but in the end decided that would be too great a variation from place name pronunciations which I was quite enjoying.

 

[Katie Bee]

This is the Aqueduct that later morphed into Ackerdock(s).

He then said that road was Aqueduct Road

I've been following this discussion, but haven't got round to replying before now.
When the children were young we went to The Ackers Adventure Centre in Small Heath, Birmingham, and I wondered if this was anything to do with your Ackerdock(s) area.
The centre was on the Grand Union Canal, I couldn't find any drawbridges, but I did spot the canal going over a small river.
Then I looked up Aqueduct Road and found the Drawbridge Inn and Drawbridge Road in Solihull and on a totally different canal.
So not the same area at all. I wonder if the Ackers name has come from the Aqueduct like your Ackerdocks?
We will never know.

Anyway - to turn the title of the discussion, I hate liver! We had it for school dinners and it was always like rubber/leather, so that put me off.
My husband likes it with bacon and often chooses it when we go out for a meal.
My father liked tripe and onions and I tried that one day, but never again.

We were in NZ 6 years ago and our bus driver was called Des pronounced Dis, so that is what I look out for in the difference between Aus and NZ speak

I worked in Sweden for a while in the mid 1970s and do not remember the Swedish people talking with and American accent, but I worked with a young Finnish guy and he had a definite American accent, he had picked up all his English from watching TV.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Then I looked up Aqueduct Road and found the Drawbridge Inn and Drawbridge Road in Solihull and on a totally different canal.
So not the same area at all. I wonder if the Ackers name has come from the Aqueduct like your Ackerdocks?
We will never know.

Thanks for your posting Katie and will respond to thread separately. First the one of most interest and to say you uncovered the right canal which you show as Solihull. It is actually Shirley by rights and I think even that stretching things a bit as I would have said it was the outer fringe of Warstock, but probably just squeezed into the neighbouring Shirley. Shirley as you know is district of Birmingham whilst Solihull (for ever denying it is part of Birmingham) is literally next door. These days of course it has its own metropolitan district council - but back in the day whilst it shared all the facilities of a Birmingham district, it saw itself as being outside. Otherwise that is indeed the canal of my youth and in fact the Stratford (on Avon) arm of the Grand Union.

I am not sure about your Ackers centre but if you care to take a peek at the Birmingham History Forum (as a member or visitor) just do a search for 'Ackers Centre' Small Heath and I guarantee someone will put you right on that. Knowing Brummie corruptions of names I think there is a good chance of the name being derived from Aqueduct. I may well check it out myself and get back to you.

 

[Bob Spiers]

Anyway - to turn the title of the discussion, I hate liver! We had it for school dinners and it was always like rubber/leather, so that put me off.
My husband likes it with bacon and often chooses it when we go out for a meal.
My father liked tripe and onions and I tried that one day, but never again.

I think Liver shares the same love-hate fate as 'Marmite' (which I hate)and I have met many like you who hate liver and all too often from bad experiences recalled from childhood. But I also own to knowing many who like me adore it and whose eyes light up when they relate they are having Liver and Bacon for lunch or dinner.

My daughter who I would describe as having 'funny' taste buds going by what she orders on the occasions we have eaten in a Restaurant together, actually surprised me not that long ago when she said that she often cooked Liver and Bacon at home for her and her husband and was a favourite meal with both.

I note your husband chooses Liver & Bacon when he eats out, and whilst I have done so many times, I am rarely pleased with the end product and not just because they invariably choose Lambs Liver but because they over-cook it and it becomes 'tough as old boots'. This may be different if the liver is Calves liver and eaten in a good fine-dining Restaurant as indeed will be the price.

Best advice for cooking Liver is bite size pieces, cooked on high heat allowing a minute per side then set aside, leaving the bacon/onions to cook on. I recently came across a brilliant "Hungry Bikers" recipe and (ignoring they opt for Lamb's Liver which I ignore) they quick fry and set aside then make the gravy in the same pans as the Bacon & Onion. When ready they add back the Liver and the dish is served at the table as a composite whole: Liver, Bacon & Onion gravy. Absolutely delicious and probably the way I will cook it in future.

Finally Tripe and Onions done in Milk as I recall. My mother ate this weekly (I think as she was an invalid most of her life it was part of her diet). I never managed more than a nibble of a small piece and recall holding my hand to my mouth and removing the offending item and vowing never to try again.

 

[peter]

Anyway - to turn the title of the discussion, I hate liver! We had it for school dinners and it was always like rubber/leather, so that put me off.

I'm not sure how they managed that with liver, but hearts were always like that (even when my mother cooked them), so I've never been tempted to cook them myself.

I think Liver shares the same love-hate fate as 'Marmite' (which I hate)

I add Marmite to the gravy when I make liver and bacon, like my mother before me, and possibly her mother before that. It's a great way of using up the last bits of Marmite that simply won't come out of the jar no matter what implement you use.

Finally Tripe and Onions done in Milk as I recall. My mother ate this weekly (I think as she was an invalid most of her life it was part of her diet). I never managed more than a nibble of a small piece and recall holding my hand to my mouth and removing the offending item and vowing never to try again.

I've never been tempted to eat tripe, but I did once try jellied eels - which suffered the same fate.

 

[Bob Spiers]

We were in NZ 6 years ago and our bus driver was called Des pronounced Dis, so that is what I look out for in the difference between Aus and NZ speak.

Yes I think we have established that the main pronunciation variation it 'i's' sounding as 'e's' and vice versa. My sister tells a humorous story (if I can remember it correctly) about a young married couple holidaying in New Zealand and hearing a lift attendant tell them to be sure to use the facilities on the 'sex' floor (I can't recall the actual ending but you will get the drift).

I worked in Sweden for a while in the mid 1970s and do not remember the Swedish people talking with and American accent, but I worked with a young Finnish guy and he had a definite American accent, he had picked up all his English from watching TV.

I visited both in 1983 and have no recollection of any America accents, but to be fair I was with a party of 14 and we moved about a bit. I do have one clear memory though that in Sweden English was a second language and we had no problem conversing in hotels and bars. But in Finland it was not nearly as good, and we had a deal of trouble communicating, other than when with our hosts.

PS Since then Gillian (of this Forum - Hi Gillian) long a resident and married to a Finn, told me that since those days Finland now embraces English as a second language but no idea if they do so with an American accent.

 

[Susan48]

in Sweden English was a second language

Our son and daughter-in-law are friends with a Swedish family who live in Stockholm. Their children go to a secondary school where all lessons are taught in English. No wonder their English is so good.

 

[peter]

Our son and daughter-in-law are friends with a Swedish family who live in Stockholm. Their children go to a secondary school where all lessons are taught in English. No wonder their English is so good.

I read recently that some schools in Portugal now teach half of their lessons in English (I'm not talking about the International Schools, by the way).

 

[Bob Spiers]

When the children were young we went to The Ackers Adventure Centre in Small Heath, Birmingham, and I wondered if this was anything to do with your Ackerdock(s) area.

Hi Katie, I checked out the Ackers Adventure Centre for you and see the name originates from a Trust (The Ackers Trust) which is a Charity set up in 1981 with the following charitable objects:

"The restoration and maintenance of land at Tyseley for use as an open space and place of resort for the inhabitants of the local Government Electoral Wards known as Small Heath Ward, Sparkbrook Ward, Sparkhill Ward, Acocks Green Ward and Saltley Ward as they existed at the date of the trust deed 30.03.1981"

An independent Charitable Limited Company was established in 2005 as "Ackers Adventure" to continuously expand the aims and objectives of the Ackers Trust. 'Ackers Adventure' extended the scope beyond the 'local community' to include inhabitants of other areas nationally in charitable ways.

I discovered that land in Sparkbrook valley was in Tudor times knows as Eckleshole Meadow. This area became known as 'The Ackers' derived it is believed from 'The Ackerducks' a colloquial name for the area and perhaps itself derived from the word 'Aqueducts' but no one seems to know which Aqueduct. In 1978 the Oldknow Road School of Small Heath* set up a project as part of the Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme and this was eventually taken on by the City Council under the leadership of a Trust known as the Ackers.

At this point my head began to hurt and likely too much information anyway.

PS* Perhaps the Oldknow Road school of Small Heath is known to you?

 

[Bob Spiers]

 

[Katie Bee]

I checked out the Ackers Adventure Centre for you

Wow, Bob, thank you for finding out all that information. Very interesting that it has a possible link to aqueduct.
Thanks for that.

Perhaps the Oldknow Road school of Small Heath is known to you?

Sorry I don't know the road or school, I'm not from the area. Just a visitor.

 

[Bob Spiers]

As this is a food theme (or began as one) I thought I would just ask the question WHO LIKES BRUSSEL SPROUTS? The reason for asking is I know someone who eats a bowl (and not a small one) of them at a sitting. No not me, but Paul the husband of my cousin Eileen. I was reminded only this week in speaking with Eileen of the incident recalled when visiting and eating Sunday lunch with them in pre-pandemic times.

At the time Eileen asked in advance (Paul was not present at the time) if either of us enjoyed Sprouts as NONE of her family did, save for Paul who adored them. My wife answered saying although she was not fond of them, Bob would no doubt have a few. I should have taken note of her retort..."better not tell Paul then", but as this was said with a broad smile on her face I thought nothing of it.

When we were all seated the Beef was carved and served on our plates, leaving potatoes, greens, gravy for self serve. The centre piece of the table was a BIG bowl of Sprouts. Paul as the Host insisted on being last so when my turn came I chose to help myself to a half dozen or so sprouts. I chanced to notice the look of amazement on Paul's face(think of snatching a bone from a dog) as apparently no one of their family (two married children and sundry grand children) EVER ate sprouts. Now someone had had the temerity to removed a handful from HIS bowl of sprouts.

Now I should own to the aftermath of the occasion being of good humour a foretaste of which would be ...fancy depriving a man of his sprouts; the last time we invite them again; next time write PAUL's SPROUTS on the bowl; are you sure he is your cousin?... and repartee along the same lines which was given and taken in good part.

I was to learn that Eileen would treat him to a cooked bowl of sprouts after some arduous garden or similar work (they are both retired and Paul coming up 80). Paul would eat the sprouts with or without other food accompaniments. I did not have the heart or confidence to ask if he later had indigestion or 'wind' troubles - and have never found anyone else his equal in enjoying Brussel Sprouts.

How about you?

 

[peter]

I like all green vegetables. Spouts are particularly good with a roast, and in a normal week we probably have sprouts as one of our vegetables on 2 or 3 occasions. I have to admit that even when they are in season I usually buy frozen as they are more consistent in size and quality, as well as being far quicker to prepare.

They do have a strong and distinctive flavour, so I can understand why some children don't like them. I still won't eat parsnips (except as part of a pack of Tyrell's vegetable crisps), though I do enjoy the smell of roasting parsnips.

 

[Katie Bee]

I will have 1 or 2 sprouts, but my husband will eat the rest. Not quite a bowl full.
He would eat a whole plate full of runner beans though.

 

[Bob Spiers]

like all green vegetables.

Agreed - but my wife likes very few except runner beans and broccoli to a lesser extent. She has been advised time and again on medical dietary advice (she is Diabetic) to eat more greens, but she often leaves more on the plate that she eats and in truth I often finish them off being brought up to 'waste not want not'.

I actually like sprouts and as my wife doesn't I cook them on a mix and match basis with other greens or separately in a steamer. I agree frozen sprouts are easier to prepare and cook(not least taking the amount you want and returning the package to the freezer). But, from experience 'back in the day' when I grew my own, picking a stalk of sprouts after a frost and preparing and cooking same (I was not the cook at the time) they had a flavour all of their own and frozen sprouts do not come close.

We both tend to like parsnips especially when roasted (and yes the smell is wonderful) but my wife is not fond of them in a stew. I think they impart a flavour all of their own and insist on having at least one decent sized parsnip among with multiple carrots and a small swede (and I know these are sometimes confused with a turnip but both our parents called them swedes, as do we). I tend NOT to include a Leek even though I like same but they tend to break up in a stew, so usually only include them in casseroles.

What all this shows -and I am sure other postings will illustrate in different ways - is that tastes vary and I am just glad to be one of those people who likes most things, especially greens, even if I run a mile at the smell never mind the taste of Marmite.

 

[Katie Bee]

I have to admit that even when they are in season I usually buy frozen as they are more consistent in size and quality, as well as being far quicker to prepare.

We have never tried frozen sprouts. I'm not sure that we will.

even if I run a mile at the smell never mind the taste of Marmite.

My husband loves Marmite. I don't hate it, but I don't love it either.

a small swede (and I know these are sometimes confused with a turnip but both our parents called them swedes, as do we).

Coming from the North of England they were called turnips. I did not know that there were white turnips until I went south to university.
Halloween meant carving turnip lanterns. That was a difficult task and mostly done by dad!

 

[Pauline]

I like sprouts, providing they are fresh and not over cooked. I like most vegetables except for broad beans and mushy peas. I don’t mind frozen peas or tinned sweet corn (unsalted), but otherwise I always go for fresh vegetables.

 

[peter]

We have never tried frozen sprouts. I'm not sure that we will.

You should. Very good value (£1.10 for 1kg at Tesco), no preparation, no waste, and cook perfectly in the microwave. Frozen vegetables are just as healthy as fresh, often better quality, and usually cheaper.

I wasn't a fan of broad beans until I tried Tesco's frozen baby broad beans - my wife's favourite vegetable, and very good with fish or oriental dishes. Frozen broccoli is not as easy to cook to perfection as fresh, however. And as for sweetcorn - is it even a vegetable?