Great Aunt or Grand Aunt?

[peter]

Ah you're a fan of the Two Ronnies? That's from one of their sketches.

Actually it was the result of a football match that took place on 22nd April 1964 (not January, as this BBC article claims).

 

[Bob Spiers]

It has only just dawned on me midst all this talk of 'Great' versus 'Grand' that of course we need Great to relate to siblings of our Great Grandparents and Gx2 Gx3 etc. I checked this out on my trusty FTL and sure enough any sibling at Great Grandparent level becomes Great Grand Uncle or Great Grand Aunt. Ancestry records the same; pretty obvious when you think about it! So by this criteria at Grandparent level the correct relationship must be Grand Aunt and Uncle. QED

 

[peter]

It has only just dawned on me midst all this talk of 'Great' versus 'Grand' that of course we need Great to relate to siblings of our Great Grandparents and Gx2 Gx3 etc. I checked this out on my trusty FTL and sure enough any sibling at Great Grandparent level becomes Great Grand Uncle or Great Grand Aunt. Ancestry records the same; pretty obvious when you think about it! So by this criteria at Grandparent level the correct relationship must be Grand Aunt and Uncle. QED

I don't see that it makes sense to use 'Grand' for the first additional generation and 'Great' for the subsequent generations.

 

[Bob Spiers]

With regards to grandparents etc. what I find interesting is how we differentiate them when we are children, my father's mother was "Granny" and my mother's mother "Grandma" while my daughters called their paternal grandmother, "Nana".

How we address grandparents has always fascinated me. As children I and my sisters were brought up to refer to each set of Grandparents as Grandma or Granddad (insert surname). However as tiny tots Grandma was called 'Nanny' yet Granddad (always with two 't's' note) had no short form. But move aside to a cousin addressing the same grandparents, they became Nan & Pap (insert surname). Another cousin used Granddad and Grandma but added his/her first name, so Granddad Adams to me, was Granddad George to my cousin. My Dad was strictly against this and I often heard him speaking with my Mom (note the Brummie 'Mom') -as it was on her side of the family -that it ought not to be encouraged.

All these years later and with nephews and nieces and my own grandchildren I am invariably plain Granddad; Granddad Bob or Uncle Bob and as already mentioned in a previous posting -and a generation down - even Great Granddad or Great Uncle Bob. Dad would not have approved!

 

[Bob Spiers]

I don't see that it makes sense to use 'Grand' for the first additional generation and 'Great' for the subsequent generations.

Au contraire Peter it brings method and order to the generational levels. As with GRAND parents and GREAT GRAND parents.

 

[Bryman]

I don't see that it makes sense to use 'Grand' for the first additional generation and 'Great' for the subsequent generations.

But that is exactly what we do use. I don't have Great Parents, they are Grand Parents, but their ancestors are Great Grand Parents and Great Great Grand Parents, etc.

 

[peter]

Au contraire Peter it brings method and order to the generational levels. As with GRAND parents and GREAT GRAND parents.

But Bob - and Bryman - I don't write 'grand father', I write 'grandfather'. It's a special word for a special person - it's not a word that we construct to order by adding prefixes.

Just consider the diminutives - gramps, grandad, grancha (South Wales) etc - in England we simply don't see the 'grand' part as a separate word. In America they are more likely to write Granddad than grandad: there are plenty of things that we regard as Americanisms where what has actually happened is that they have preserved the meaning/spelling that was common in England in earlier centuries, whereas we have adapted the words.

 

[LynSB]

I have just received a card addressed to Great Aunty Lynda. I think I'd rather be 'great' than a rather superior sounding 'grand'. I think great aunts are too ingrained in our family to be called anything else.

 

[Bob Spiers]

I understand the point you are making and agree the term grandfather is a word just as you say but maintain 'Great' is a definitive prefix. As a traditionalist (in most things not all) I personally deplore 'Grandad' (despite others telling me it looks right) and always remind the spelling is Granddad. Of course for formal occasions when being referred to rather than addressed by grandchildren I am a Grandfather but otherwise I answer to Granddad.

Bryman makes a valid point about not referring to Grandparents as Greatparents and as a result Grandparents and siblings of Grandparents must be Grand Aunts & Uncles.

The word Grand here is separate as Grandaunt and Granduncle look awkward to the eye even though I notice they are not picked up by the spellchecker whereas greatparent (and greatfather) most definitely are.

Generations back the term Great -applied as a prefix - qualifies the level for both Grandparents and Grand Aunts and Uncles alike.

 

[Bob Spiers]

I have just received a card addressed to Great Aunty Lynda. I think I'd rather be 'great' than a rather superior sounding 'grand'. I think great aunts are too ingrained in our family to be called anything else.

Yes on a family and personal level I agree and the same applies in my own family. I can insist genealogically speaking that as I am a Grandfather I must also be a Granduncle, but whenever did tradition take notice of rules? My sisters insist I am a Great Uncle and there's an end to it.

 

[peter]

The word Grand here is separate as Grandaunt and Granduncle look awkward to the eye

If anything looks awkward to my eye it's Granddad. Clive Dunn must be turning in his grave!

Thankfully your sisters seem not to have had their heads turned by American genealogists. Their system of nomenclature is perfectly logical in the US, but it makes no sense to those of us brought up with British ways.

 

[canadianbeth]

Actually, I do have a great great nephew, or, as FTM puts it a great grand nephew. My sister became a great grandmother just recently when her granddaughter had a baby boy. Her grandson, mentioned previously, while 30, still has no children of his own.

And I always refer to my grandparents as grandfather or grandmother, never granddad. Or grandpa and grandma.

 

[emjay]

We are referred to as 'grandad and granny' by our two son's children and 'grandpa and granny' by our daughter's children. However our son-in-law is born of Chinese parents; so as maternal grandparents we are also, (my spellings will not be correct, but sound-like) 'gung-gung' and 'paw-paw' whilst paternal grandparents are 'yeh-yeh' and 'mah-mah'. (Sometimes my granddaughter calls me a combination of the two..'gung-pa')

 

[emjay]

American genealogists

Don't think they would have their heads turned by any genealogist

 

[Gillian]

Thankfully your sisters seem not to have had their heads turned by American genealogists. Their system of nomenclature is perfectly logical in the US, but it makes no sense to those of us brought up with British ways.

I think American genealogists are just as puzzled as their British counterparts by the grand v great business. Read the comments on this blog at ancestry great and grand aunts - all from Americans, I think. One person, referring to aunt, even says "grand sounds formal and British ... Great aunt Maggie just sounds more familiar to us.."

 

[Gillian]

All our grandchildren call us Granpa and Granma. I dropped the d because you can't hear it. My choice!

 

[Bob Spiers]

If anything looks awkward to my eye it's Granddad. Clive Dunn must be turning in his grave!

Thankfully your sisters seem not to have had their heads turned by American genealogists. Their system of nomenclature is perfectly logical in the US, but it makes no sense to those of us brought up with British ways.

Will have to state I disagree completely and Clive Dunn or otherwise consider the word Grandad to be a non-word and as my English dictionary shows if rendered in this way it needs an apostrophe - Gran'dad! (Of course the US English spellchecker dislikes both as do I).

My sisters bless their souls have little knowledge of UK genealogists let alone paying any regard to American ones. Their preferment of 'Great' over 'Grand' is instinctive, they like the sound of it and their reasoning has nothing to do with British Ways.

 

[Gillian]

I agree with Bob completely re "Their preferment of 'Great' over 'Grand' is instinctive, they like the sound of it and their reasoning has nothing to do with British Ways." See my post above, where an American writes: "Great aunt Maggie just sounds more familiar to us."

 

[peter]

My sisters bless their souls have little knowledge of UK genealogists let alone paying any regard to American ones. Their preferment of 'Great' over 'Grand' is instinctive, they like the sound of it and their reasoning has nothing to do with British Ways.

That was precisely my point. None of us would have even considered talking about grand aunts and uncles had we not encountered this strange (to us) alternative on international genealogy sites.

 

[Heather]

However as tiny tots Grandma was called 'Nanny' yet Granddad (always with two 't's' note) had no short form.

Bob was one cuppa not enough for Granddad ?